NBCUni 9.5.23

Category Archives: Director

Writer/Director Celine Song Talks Post on Oscar-Nominated Past Lives

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By Iain Blair

In her directorial film debut, Past Lives, South Korean-born playwright Celine Song has made a romantic and deceptively simple film that is intensely personal and autobiographical yet universal, with its themes of love, loss and what might have been. Past Lives is broken into three parts spanning countries and decades. First we see Nora as a young girl in South Korea, developing an early bond with her best friend, Hae Sung, before moving with her family to Toronto. Then we see Nora in her early 20s as she reconnects virtually with Hae Sung. Finally, more than a decade later, Hae Sung visits Nora, now a married playwright living in New York. It stars Greta Lee, Teo Yoo and John Magaro.

Celine Song directing Greta Lee

I spoke with Song about the post workflow and making the A24 film, which is Oscar-nominated for Best Picture and Best Original Screenplay. It also just won Best Director and Best Feature at the Independent Spirit Awards.

How did you prep to direct your first film? Did you talk to other directors?
I talked to some amazing directors, but what they all said is that because only I know the film that I’m making, the way it’s going to be prepped is a process that only I can really know. You need really strong producers and department heads, which I was so lucky to have. I was able to draw on their experience and advice for every step of the way.

You shot in Seoul and New York. Was it the same sort of experience or was it different going back to Seoul?
The filmmaking culture is very different in both places. In New York, there is a very strong union, and in Korea there isn’t one. Also, the way that you secure locations is different. In New York, if you want to shoot somewhere, the mayor’s office knows about it. Korea is still a little bit like guerrilla filmmaking. You show up to a location and try to get it right. You can’t really get permits for things in Korea.

The story takes place over three separate timeframes. Did you shoot chronologically?
No. We shot everything in New York City, and then we had a set built for the Skype section. Then we went to Korea, prepped it for another month and shot there for 10 days.

You and your, DP Shabier Kirchner, shot 35mm. What led you to that decision?
It was my very first movie, so I didn’t know how hard it was going to be. I don’t have experience shooting on digital or film. I don’t know anything. I think part of it was first-timer bravery. I don’t know enough to be afraid. That’s where the fearlessness came from. But it was also informed by the conversations I was having with my DP. We talked about the story and how the philosophy of shooting on film is connected to the philosophy of the movie, which is that the movie is about time made tangible and time made visible. It just made sense for it to be shot on film.

Celine Song on-set

You come from the theater, where there is obviously no post production. Was that a steep learning curve for you?
Yes, but you do have a preview period in theater, when you see it in front of an audience, and you keep editing in that way. But more importantly, I’m a writer. So part of post is that I don’t think of the movie as just what I see on screen and all the sound design and every piece of it. To me, it is a piece of text. So just as I would edit a piece of my own writing, I feel like I was looking at the editing process very much like editing text.

Then of course in film, it’s not just the writing on the page. It’s also sound, color, visuals, timing… So in that way, I really felt that editing was about composing a piece of music. I think of film as a piece of music, with its own rhythm and its own beat that it has to move through. So in that way, I think that that’s also a part of the work that I would do as a playwright in the theater, create a world that works like a piece of music from beginning to end.

With all that in mind, I honestly felt like I was the most equipped to do post. I had an entire world to learn; I had never done it before. But with post, I was in my domain. The other thing I really love about editing and VFX in film is that you can control a lot. Let’s say there’s a pole in the middle of the theater space. You have to accept that pole. But in film, you can just delete the pole with VFX. It’s amazing.

Did editor Keith Fraase, who is based in New York, come on-set at all in Korea, or did you send him dailies?
We sent dailies. He couldn’t come on-set because of COVID.

What were the biggest editing challenges on this?
I think the film’s not so far from the way I had written it, so the bigger editing choices were already scripted. The harder bits were things that are like shoe leather — the scenes that hold the movie together but are not the center of the emotion or the center of the story.

One example is when Nora is traveling to Montauk, where we know that she’s going to eventually meet Arthur (who becomes her husband). We were dealing with how much time is required and how to convey time so that when we meet Arthur, it seems like it is an organic meeting and not such a jarring one. I had scripted all this shoe-leather stuff that we had shot – every beat of her journey to Montauk. We had a subway beat; we had a bus beat. We had so many pieces of her traveling to Montauk because I was nervous about it, feeling it was not long enough. But then, of course, when we actually got into the edit, we realized we only needed a few pieces. You just realize that again, the rhythm of it dictates that you don’t need all of it.

Where did you do all the sound mix?
We did it at all at Goldcrest in New York.

Are you very involved in that?
You have no idea. I think that’s the only place where I needed more time. We went over budget… that’s a nicer way to say it. That’s the only part of the post process where I really was demanding so much. I was so obsessed with it. The sound designer’s nickname for me was Ms. Dog Ears. I know different directors have very different processes around sound, but for me, I was in that room with my sound designer Jacob Ribicoff for 14 hours a day, five days a week, and sometimes overtime, for weeks. I wouldn’t leave.

I would stay there because I just know that sound is one of those things that holds the film together. Also, with this movie, the sound design of the cities and how different they are and how it’s going to play with the compositions — I had such a specific idea of how I wanted those things to move. Because again, I do think of a film as a piece of music. So I was pretty crazy about it. But I don’t want people to notice the sound design. I want people to be able to feel like they’re actually just standing in Madison Square Park. I want them to be fully immersed.

Obviously, it’s not a big effects movie, but you have some. How did that go?
I think it’s a bit of a subjective thing. Actually, looking at it, I’m like, “Well, does that seem good to you?” I’m showing it to my production designer and my DP and I’m like, “This looks OK to me, but I wonder if it can be better. Would you look at it?” So I relied on many eyes.

I give credit to Keith, but also to my assistant editor, Shannon Fitzpatrick, who was a total genius at catching any problems with VFX and having such a detailed eye. I think she’s one of the only people who really noticed things that I didn’t notice in the VFX. I’m like, I think that looks fine, and then she would say point to this one thing in the corner that’s not working. There are people at A24 who’re also amazing at catching sound and visuals because that’s their job. They’ll point out what sounds strange or what looks strange. So you have so many people who are part of the process.

Who was the colorist, and how involved were you with the grading?
It was Tom Poole at Company 3, which is where we edited and did color and everything. I love the process because I showed up after Shabier and Tom had already gone through the whole film and graded it. They did amazing, beautiful work. Then I would come in and give notes about certain scenes and then we’d do them. Of course, while they were grading it, they’d send me stills, and I’d give notes on the stills before going into the suite. Also, Shabier and Tom have worked together a lot, so they already kind of had a rhythm for how they wanted to color the film.

What sort of film did you set out to make?
Since this was the first film I’d directed, I felt like the main goal was to discover the language of my movie. It was beyond just trying to tell the story the best way I could, from the script stage to the post. I think that was the goal throughout. But the truth is that I really wanted the language of the film to be my own language, and I wanted to learn and have a revelation for myself of what my movie is.

I know it is partly autobiographical. How much of you is in Nora?
It really was inspired by a true event of sitting between my childhood sweetheart, who had come to visit me from Korea, and my husband who I live with in New York City. So this is very autobiographical, and the feeling that I had in that very personal moment is the inspiration for the whole film. But then once you turn it into a script, which is an objectification process, and then you turn it into a film with hundreds of people — and especially with the cast members who have to play the characters — by that time it has become very much an object. Then with post, it’s about the chiseling. It’s about putting together an object that is to be shared with the world.

A film is so different from writing a play. Was it a big adjustment for you?
I know theater because I was in it for a decade, probably more, so I knew the very fundamental difference between the way a play is made versus how a film is made. For example, I was taught that in theater, time and space is figurative, while time and space in film is literal. So that means there are different kinds of strengths and weaknesses in both mediums when it comes to telling a story that spans decades and continents. And, in this case, because my joke is always that the villains of the story are 24 years and the Pacific Ocean, it actually needs the time and space to be seen literally… because there needs to be a reason why these two lovers are not together. So the children have to be literally there, and Korea and New York City have to feel tangible and literal.

I assume you can’t wait to direct again?
Oh, I can’t wait. I want to wake up and just go to set tomorrow. That’s how I feel. I’m trying to shoot another movie as soon as I can.

Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

Matthias Hoene

Behind the Title: Director Matthias Hoene

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Matthias Hoene is a director at WTP Pictures, a creative production studio that produces commercials, feature films, documentaries, TV series and music videos. The company is based in Detroit and LA but shoots worldwide with filmmakers and creators working in Spain, New York, Mexico and more. The Berlin-bred Hoene directs spots and films.

Let’s find out more…

How would you describe directing?
To me, making a film is like cooking a meal. You need to think about the flavor, visual appeal and texture, and then find the right ingredients to make the “dish” come to life. Do you want it to be sweet? Spicy? Umami? Hearty? Light? Nourishing? Vegan? Low-carb? You gather your spices and your carbs and veggies. Then you prepare it and serve it up with an exciting presentation, steaming hot: an olfactory journey for the senses, an adventure for the taste buds, a titillating theme with surprises and an emotional finish… and, most importantly, remember to leave some space for dessert.

Matthias Hoene

Adidas

What was it about directing that attracted you?
The act of storytelling is a primal and important part of human life. As an artist, I always wanted to move people, inspire them and make them feel alive. This can be done through a unique way of looking at the world, an insightful comment on a current matter or just a playful take on an everyday situation. I love creating worlds or surreal situations or just showing the audience something heartfelt, funny or emotional.

Everyone in my family used to tinker in a workshop making furniture, soldering custom hi-fi equipment together or making handmade fireworks (please don’t try this at home). That, combined with my interest in comic books, drawing, painting and photography, led me to filmmaking.

What I love about directing is that it sits at the intersection of technology and art. To be successful, you have to be intuitive and creative, working from gut instinct while also being tech-savvy, super-organized and methodical. At times, you need to know how to improvise and stick it all together with spit and chewing gum, all in the service of creating something wonderful.

Chanel

What continues to keep you interested?
Filmmaking is an art that keeps us humble. There is always more to learn, try out, experiment and express. I love working and am excited about how storytelling keeps evolving across new platforms and media. The bottom line is that people will never run out of the need to hear stories to help them make sense of the world (or escape it for a moment), and I’m excited to be part of that journey… and I would love to win an Academy Award one day (laughs).

How do you pick the people you work with on a project?
Directing is teamwork, and I love the families we create to bring each project to fruition. Picking your team is like casting actors. You want to make sure everyone’s unique talent brings out the right flavors in the project. I have a regular go-to crew, but I also pick and choose specific talent when appropriate for specific jobs.

The metaphor is that everyone should have a sandbox to play in and have fun, but within the parameters the story requires. The goal is to combine our varied talents and make something that is bigger than the sum of its parts.

Adidas

How do you work with your DP? How do you describe the look you are after?
I am very specific about the visual style of each film and spend a lot of time taking photos and filming the locations in prep for the shoot. I share those photos along with visual references and movies with my DP so we can develop the look together.

I always have a camera with me, as a visual sketchbook, to train my eye, discover the world and hone my craft. Plus, I love taking pictures. Because a picture says more than a thousand words, how you stage, frame and light each shot is an intrinsic part of the storytelling and can enhance every commercial or film.

Do you get involved with post at all?
My work can be post-heavy, so I like to be part of the process, especially if it involves character animation. I love bringing extra nuance and a bit of joyful spirit to CGI characters. So when it comes to fine-tuning the details of a performance, you might catch me acting out the performance of an animated ogre or a tap-dancing penguin or whatever else is required.

Chanel

Music and sound design are also crucial to my storytelling. I usually like to work closely with my composer to evolve the music. We keep going until we find the perfect sound and melody, trying to create something cool, unique and memorable. Of course, I also understand that in commercials, sometimes it’s good to step back and let everyone else work on the final polish, so I’ll adapt to each situation as appropriate.

How did the pandemic affect your process and your work?
I remote-directed a few commercials during the pandemic, and I shot the first season of my TV show, Theodosia, during lockdown. I have to say that I don’t miss Zoom-directing or working with masks and having to stick to our social bubbles. But going through this has made a few aspects of the craft easier to organize, and using video conferencing certainly helps with the carbon footprint.

That said, I love the hustle and bustle of a film set, and as a director, I believe that my energy helps shape great performances and get the best out of the crew, so I’m glad we’re back to IRL.

Can you name some recent projects?
I recently completed my third feature film, Little Bone Lodge, which is a contained thriller and has some cracking performances from the entire cast, including Joely Richardson (Nip/Tuck). I recently directed a spot for Lenovo Legion that shows a great crossover between live action and animation, and a film for Adidas about cliff diver Anna Bader that is beautiful and has a worthwhile message. There was also a Chanel spot.

What project are you most proud of?
My first commercial for Club 18-30 won a Golden Lion at Cannes. I was fresh out of college and totally blown away by its success, but the film holds up and still makes me giggle. I directed a couple of 3- to 5-minute shorts for cell phone network Giffgaff that are a lot of fun. I love the magical world of my McCain commercials and I love the escapist world-building of my Lenovo Legion spot.

Was there a particular film or show that inspired you to get into filmmaking?
I have a weird and eclectic bunch of influences, from Terminator 2 and Aliens, Fight Club, The Insider, Best in Show and Amélie. Nevertheless, you’ll find traces of those disparate influences in my work, which ranges from dark and action-packed to whimsical and sweet.

What’s your favorite part of the job?
My favorite part of the job is that there are so many different parts… throughout pitching, development, financing, prep, shoot, post production and release, you constantly have to shift gears and get to do so many different things that it never gets boring. For me, it’s priceless when you see an actor bring a special moment to life; your heart beats a little faster and you remember why you got into this business in the first place.

What’s your least favorite?
My least favorite part of the job is the empty-nester feeling when the project is over and I have to let it go. That said, that’s when promotion starts, and you share it with the rest of the world, so it’s not so bad.

If you didn’t have this job, what would you be doing?
I would work for NASA and build a spaceship to take us beyond our solar system into deep space, marking the beginning of mankind’s journey to explore the rest of the universe.

Matthias Hoene

Matthias Hoene

How early did you know this would be your path?
I grew up in Berlin in a family of scientists. I knew no one in the industry, nor did I have any close role models who had made it in the film industry. But I loved movies, especially science-fiction and fantasy. So I started drawing and painting everything that popped into my head before picking up my first film camera at St. Martin’s College in London.

Name three pieces of technology you can’t do without.
The truth is boring: My laptop. My phone. My camera. But, looking beyond that, I love vintage lenses, the mechanical beauty of a Bolex 16mm camera, and my Nikon FM2.

What do you do to de-stress from it all?
Before I made my first feature film, I ran the New York City Marathon. Committing to one thing for that long — the training and then the run itself — was such an empowering experience that it still gives me strength now, and I’ve been running ever since. Nothing is better for de-stressing than a double endorphin hit, feet to the ground, fresh air and nature.

While filming in China, I picked up meditation and now use a pick ‘n’ mix of techniques ranging from mindfulness via transcendental meditation to using the Waking Up app.

And finally, I love traveling, reading, cooking and hanging out with friends… everything that grounds me in reality.

NBCUni 9.5.23

Director Francis Lawrence on New Hunger Games‘ Edit and Color

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By Iain Blair

Director/producer Francis Lawrence saw his career go turbo-charged when he directed the last three of the four Hunger Game films and helped steer the sci-fi dystopian series into the record books as one of the most successful franchises of all time.

Director Francis Lawrence and DP Jo Willems. Photo Credit: Murray Close

Now Lawrence has returned to the franchise with The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, a prequel and origin story set 64 years before Katniss Everdeen volunteered as tribute and decades before Coriolanus Snow became the tyrannical president of Panem. The film follows a young Coriolanus (Tom Blyth), the last hope for his failing lineage, who is reluctantly assigned to mentor Lucy Gray Baird (Rachel Zegler), a tribute from the impoverished District 12. It also stars Peter Dinklage and Viola Davis.

I spoke with Lawrence (I Am Legend, Red Sparrow, Water for Elephants), about making the Lionsgate film and collaborating with his go-to team of DP Jo Willems (ASC, SBC), editor Mark Yoshikawa, sound designer Jeremy Peirson, visual effects supervisor Adrian De Wet and colorist Dave Hussey. The film will premiere later this month.

The film is visually beautiful. What did you shoot it on?
We shot it on the large-format ARRI Alexas with the big 65mm sensor that I really, really like. It’s like shooting large-format film; you get the shallower depth of field. I tend to use wide lenses, and the wider lenses with that sensor also do less warping than normal, so you can get the camera really close to people, but still have a real sense of geography and space.

How tough was the shoot, considering it was all on location in Poland and Germany?
It was actually quite fun because we scheduled really well. It was not the most technical of shoots; I’ve done things that are far trickier technically than this movie. But primarily it was great to be in these locations, to have a plan in place, to know what we’re doing, to have the right amount of time to do what we wanted to do. We actually finished a day early, which I think is a rarity in our business.

Where did you do the post?
We edited on Sunset Boulevard and used the same building and offices where I did my last movie. I also used the same team that I’ve been working with a lot recently, which is really nice. Then the visual effects were actually sort of spread out. We discovered a lot of people in a lot of different countries. There are some Danish people and Swedish people and some amazing companies that do great work. And so we farmed out a lot of the visual effects to many companies (including Ghost VFX, Important Looking Pirates, Incessantrain VFX, Outpost VFX, Rise VFX, Crafty Apes and ReDefine VFX).

Your editor was Mark Yoshikawa, who has cut so many of your projects. Did he come on-set?
No. He worked entirely remotely. That started with my previous movie, Slumberland, because we were still in a COVID lockdown, and so there was no reason for him to be in Toronto when I was doing that movie. We got used to working remotely. I haven’t always been a fan of doing work remotely, but the pandemic forced me into doing it. So we continued with that when we were in Berlin and Poland. He worked from home, and I would work in Europe. Then he would send me scenes, and I might spend a day or two looking at scenes and then send him notes.

What were the main editing challenges on this?
I think the biggest challenge honestly was length. It was a very long book. We had a very long script and just getting it down [was hard]. I think the first assembly was maybe 4 hours and 10 minutes or something. That’s with everything in it. So it was really just getting it down to the length that it is now.

While the film features VFX, you tried to do much of it practically, yes?
The movies that I did before had a lot of visual effects and a lot of virtual environments where we were shooting a lot on greenscreen stages, and I knew I didn’t want to do that again. So I set out with production designer Uli Hanisch to figure out how to make this world as believable and as authentic as possible. Therefore, we wanted to shoot primarily on location.

We built just one set, which is the apartment, and everything else was shot on location. We knew that to make it feel the way we wanted it to feel, we were going to have to do some augmentation physically to those sets. But we were also going to have to do some digital augmentation. So a lot of my conversations with VFX supervisor Adrian De Wet were about that look and feel and adding cityscape in the background, extending buildings, creating damage where there was no damage and sometimes adding artistic, aesthetic, extra design to things.

From talking to you in the past about your other films, I know you aren’t big on storyboards, but I assume on this one you had to storyboard and previz a lot of the action scenes?
Yes, in general I don’t storyboard the whole movie. Typically, for anything that is very technical or is going to need a lot of visual effects, I will board and do previz and sometimes postviz. But in general, I don’t do storyboards front to back for an entire movie. I did a few technical sequences of previz, like the scene with the snakes in the arena. Another one is a scene with a drone attack in the arena, and there’s a big bombing that happens before the games starts, so we wanted to make sure we knew how we were going to tackle all those pieces

Was your visual effects supervisor, Adrian De Wet, on-set?
He was on-set for some of it, yes. We had a local guy that was with us there the whole time, and then sometimes Adrian’s visual effects producer, Eve Fizzinoglia, was also there. So during really big complicated moments, Adrian was around. He was there for the snakes and the bombing, and for some of the toughest stuff.

What were the toughest effects to pull off in the end?
I think the snakes were the toughest effects — not necessarily tough to shoot, but tough to make sure they looked like snakes. The environment is so dusty and dirty, so there’s all that dust interaction, the interaction with pebbles and rocks, the movement, the animation, the continuity and making sure they weren’t too anthropomorphized, that they feel like real snakes. All that kind of stuff was tricky to get just right.

Where did you do the color grade?
Company 3 with colorist Dave Hussey. We go way back to the music video days and have been working together since the late ‘90s. Then he did my first movie, Constantine. I’m pretty involved. I’ve always been involved with the color and the look of the things that I’m working on, even in my music video days.

Shooting digital has changed my process because I have so many conversations with DP Jo Willems ahead of time. Then, when we’re shooting, we have the DIT, and he’s showing me samples of color. We have discussions right there while he’s making the samples that inform what the dailies are so we have a direction already.

Because all those conversations with Jo funnel into him doing his first pass of the movie, sometimes that first pass, in terms of final color, ends up being a teaser or a trailer. You take that footage, it gets cut into the teaser trailer, and Jo goes in and works with Dave on that. I get to see the direction. I can maybe pull back or say, “This is a little too dark” or “Make the tunnels cooler.” When we shot it, it looked like the tunnels were lit more warmly. But now, in the final, it feels cooler and fluorescent. We had all those discussions. So it’s really Jo and Dave, and then I come in and supervise and make little adjustments and tweaks, like if I want Tom’s eyes to be bluer or the rose to be more neutral-white or whatever it is.

Fair to say the overall look is almost baked in when you’re shooting?
Yeah, it’s pretty close. What Jo did, which I really like now, was give it a grittier feel. This is a period piece to the other movies, and we wanted it to be a bit grittier. We’ve never really added grain. Instead we went for a slightly darker, slightly more contrasty look. Then Jo went in and added some grain, but he was restrained; he didn’t go too heavy. But we wanted the movie to have some bite, and Jo really added that. That was not actually part of our initial conversation.

Can you talk about the sound?
I started a process on my second movie, I Am Legend, with sound designer Jeremy Peirson. He actually worked on my first movie too, but he really became my primary sound design person starting with I Am Legend. We bring him in almost at the very beginning of editorial. Once I’m done shooting the movie, I give the editor two weeks to finish up the assembly and get everything together.

Around the time I start coming in, Jeremy sets up his room. As we make it through reels, 20-minute chunks of the movie, we start to feed it to him. So he gets a lot of time to develop the sound and do his first passes and develop ideas. It helps lead toward test screenings — showing people the movie — but it gets us away from this idea that we’re finishing the movie and then starting sound. The sound designer has four weeks or so to come up with what the sound of the movie is now, and then he has months and months to keep going over everything.

Did it turn out the way you envisioned it?
Yeah, it did. In fact, it looks better than I thought it would from the very beginning.

Director Francis Lawrence. Photo Credit Murray Close

Prequels and sequels to huge hits are notoriously tricky to pull off. How did you approach this, and what sort of film did you set out to make?
They are tricky. The thing that was exciting to me was that I didn’t think there were going to be any other books. Creator Suzanne Collins was not planning on writing them. She surprised both producer Nina Jacobson and me with a new book in 2019. When I read it, I loved the story. I loved that it was its own object. It helps inform the other movies. It sort of helps sell the origins of lots of things from the other movies and stories we love.

But the truth is, even for people who haven’t seen the other movies or read the other books, it’s just a big stand-alone piece. I fell in love with that, and I fell in love with telling the origin story of a villain because I love those kinds of stories. There are also challenges with dramatizing that in an appropriate way and getting an audience behind somebody they know is going to end up bad in the end. All of that was what really excited me.

What’s next for you? Is there going to be another prequel?
I don’t know. It’s up to Suzanne. If she writes another book, I would love to be a part of it.

Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.


Emmy-Nominated Beef Director Jake Schreier

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By Iain Blair

The Netflix limited series Beef tells the story of two Los Angeles residents from opposite ends of the economic and social spectrum. Danny (Steven Yeun) is a struggling contractor living in gritty Koreatown and Amy (Ali Wong) is a successful lifestyle guru living in the wealthy suburb of Calabasas. Their lives become inextricably linked after a road-rage incident in a parking lot that quickly escalates into a full-blown feud.

The series earned 13 Emmy nominations across multiple categories, including one for executive producer/director Jake Schreier, whose film credits include Robot & Frank and Paper Towns.

Jake Schreier

L-R: Jake Schreier, Ali Wong and Steven Yeun

I talked with Schreier about directing the show, how he collaborated closely with “Sonny” Lee Sung Jin, the show’s creator, and DP Larkin Seiple on the look, and his involvement in posting the series.

How did you prep for this show since you directed most of the episodes — 6 out of 10?
It was quite a scramble. Sonny and I’ve been friends for six years, so before I was even involved, we were talking about it and how to accomplish it and how to approach production. At some point we figured out we would have to cross-board the whole thing; it’s not like it’s episode by episode. We just treated it like one long movie and shot across all nine episodes and the final one that Sonny directed.

So there were just a lot of conversations with him and production designer Grace Yun, about getting a sense of perspective and how to work that into the show in the limited time frame you have in television, how to give it a sense of authorship, and how to really ground audiences in Danny and Amy’s perspective.

Once you got going on this, did you work closely with Sonny on a daily basis?
Oh, 100 percent. He was there for the whole shoot except when he got COVID, and then he was there on his iPad, so it was a complete collaboration. It’s Sonny’s show and his vision, and I looked at it more as what can I offer and bring to it? Like different approaches of how you’d want to work your way into a scene, such as the church scene.

There’s a way that the writing seems to dictate an approach, but in conversations with Sonny it became clear that we should take a very different approach. And when your collaborator is also a friend, you can have those conversations and have the time to revise your approach.

Talk about the visual approach to the show, and working with Sonny and Larkin to find the right look.
We went for something cinematic, and we wanted there to be an element of handheld, of being observed. I think what’s tricky about it is there’s a real level of specificity that we had to achieve in terms of the places in LA and the main locations – Calabasas and Koreatown. But there’s also this heightened place that the show goes to, so how do we come up with an approach that would accommodate the reality of where it starts and some of the heightened places that it goes to? That is a very delicate balance to play, and we wanted you to really connect with it on that heightened level.

What about working with Larkin?
He’s also been a friend for a long time, and he’s a brilliant DP. He has such an interesting approach to lighting and such a smart approach to story as well. Just telling this story in general was such an incredible collaboration across the board, and you always want something to become greater than the sum of its parts, and we all felt that was the case here.

Tell us about the shoot. Obviously, most of it was location work, right?
Right. Grace Yun built an incredible set for Amy’s house and one for Danny’s apartment, but the rest was all locations, and we moved around a lot. For instance, we had motels in three different episodes but just for little pieces, and we could only shoot there for one day. So that was one long seven-stage day getting it all. We shot for six days an episode, so it was quite a sprint.

Maybe the craziest day was where we had to shoot the prison scenes in the beginning of Episode 9, and then the prison conversations at the end of Episode 6. Then we used the parking lot for scenes of Danny’s parents at the end of Episode 7, and we moved to a different parking structure to shoot scenes from Episode 8 and the end of Episode 6. So all that was just one day.

Jake Schreier

TV schedules are like that, and it’s why all the prep and conversations are so important, because once you’re in the middle of it it’s all moving extremely fast. And I’d always shot-list it and storyboard the script entirely in sequence, even if we were running around and shooting it out of order, to make sure those shots all intercut properly in the edit. All that planning had to be done ahead of time, as on the day it’s just a scramble.

Congratulations on your Emmy nomination for episode 9, The Great Fabricator. How did you handle the big car crash sequence?
Thank you. We got lucky with the location because it had all these private roads where we could stage the chase, and it had a hill and we could send the cars off it. It was exciting having all this action stuff to do, but then we just had six days to do it all. So how do you stage it and pull it off so it doesn’t feel compromised and is also effective? It also leaves moments for the emotional moments between Danny and his younger brother Paul. And I think the emotional moments were just as important as the action stuff.

Jake Schreier and Ali Wong

There is a fair amount of VFX work, especially with all the phone scenes. How involved were you in the post process?
Sonny was nice enough to let me stay through all the post. We had incredible editors, including Nat Fuller [Emmy nominated for his work on Beef], who cut Episode 9 and five others, and I really shoot for the editor. There’s a real specific idea in the way we want the order of the shots, and the way we want the story to be told, so it’s very important to be there for the edit.

Sonny and I had a nice trade-off where I’d turn over a cut and he’d work on it while I moved on to another episode. Then I’d come back to it and we would work on it some more, so it did what it needed to do for the story while also preserving some of the film language and grammar we’d done on the day. As for all the VFX, it’s great to have a showrunner like Sonny who is so meticulous about all that. We had various vendors [including Mas FX, Ghost VFX, Banditry and Reactor] and we tried to make it more about removing things than adding things.

Where did you do all the post?
We had offices in Burbank and then we basically went remote because of COVID and a lot of it was happening on PacPostLive, and we were trading cuts back and forth.

Jake Schreier

Isn’t it unusual for a director to be that involved in all the post?
Yes, as usually on episodic TV I’ll turn in my cut and the showrunner will take over, and this could have gone that way. But we ended up seeing the show in a very similar way, and when you come in without the attitude of trying to protect your cut or shield it, and instead it’s like, how can I help make it better, it’s a far better way of collaborating.

What about the DI? How involved were you?
I was there for some of the sessions which were done at Color Collective with colorists Alex Bickel and Alex Jimenez. But that was really them and Larkin who has such a great sense of lighting, color and texture. I’m so happy with the way it all turned out.

What’s next for you?
Whenever we can get a fair deal, I’ll get back to directing the upcoming Thunderbolts movie for Marvel, which got shut down by the strikes.

Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

 


Emmy-Nominated Director Paris Barclay on The Jeffrey Dahmer Story

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By Iain Blair

Paris Barclay is one of television’s most successful and honored directors. A two-time Emmy Award winner, he’s directed nearly 200 episodes of television, including such series as The West Wing, ER, Glee, CSI, The Shield, Scandal and NYPD Blue. He received his ninth Emmy nomination for an episode of the Netflix show Dahmer – Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story. 

Paris Barclay

The 10-part true crime series, created by Ryan Murphy and Ian Brennan, dramatizes the life and death of notorious serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer (Evan Peters). It received six Emmy nominations. Barclay’s nod was for Episode 6, “Silenced.”

I recently spoke with Barclay about making the harrowing show, the challenges, his love of post and the importance of sound.

What were the challenges of directing your episodes — 6 and 10 — and how did you prepare?
I got the scripts a couple of weeks before I had to start official preparation, so I was able to ruminate on it and imagine it. What I kept coming back to was music — not the music that would play on the show but the whole thing as a kind of musical system. That was my private touchstone. I didn’t really express that to everyone else, but I’m also a composer, and I think of things in terms of beats, silences and crescendos, and the blessing of different instruments. So I tried to sort of play it like I’d play a score that I loved. That was the over-arching design.

Then we got technical, and there was a period of thousands and thousands of meetings. What would the slice of meat look like that appears in the final scenes? That was probably seven meetings just for that. How would we do Tony’s story, and would it be different in terms of the style we were doing for the rest of the show? How would we be able to bring Evan to that period and also a brighter mood than we see with him in the past? So in meetings with Ryan and the writers and producers we gradually hashed out all of these things, bit by bit. And then we changed them, constantly, because that’s the way it goes.

Talk about working with your DP John O’Connor.
He was my DP on both episodes, and we began working on the template that had been established on the first episode by director Carl Franklin and DP Jason McCormick. Jason was sort of our visual stylist for the whole series, and working with Ryan he conceived how the show would look. He left the rule book — basically, one page of different visual rules we had to adhere to, which we then had to deviate from. It was great to have the rule book, and we used it like I used the music. It became something that we blocked in and out depending on the scene and the circumstances.

The show has a great look. What cameras and lenses did you shoot on?
We shot on the Sony Venice, and we used the Blackwing 7 series of lenses created by Bradford Young and others that have that very particular patina and have that bokeh and certain fall-off and glow. And, of course, those lenses were undoubtedly tweaked by Jason to make sure they were exactly what we wanted. I believe we used two sets of the Blackwing 7 series of lenses, one that was a little bit more traditional in the Blackwing style, and one that was a little bit moiré distorted that we used in certain moments.

Tell us about the shoot.
We shot it all here in LA at Raleigh Studios, and the shooting schedule depended on various factors. So while I was shooting Episode 6, we were also cleaning up parts of Episode 1 and other episodes, so the schedule went a bit longer than usual.

I shot for about 18 days on Episode 6, and Episode 10 was a bit more efficient, shooting for about 14 days. They were definitely longer than normal TV as we shot cinematically, and it takes extra time to do all the setups and get the beautiful look we were hoping for. I think we did get the look we wanted.

Did you start integrating post during the shoot?
Oh yeah. I was super-fortunate to have Taylor Joy Mason as my editor. She was brilliant and came up with lots of great ideas. We were on the phone a lot about the things I was delivering, and she was trying things that were somewhat experimental and not necessarily in the traditional style of the show, which opened it up.

For instance, like the flutter-cutting between Dahmer and Tony when we go back to him telling his parents he met a good friend, and then we go back to the club. That was a real editorial collaboration from the get-go. Then there was the strobe lighting that made it intermittent and allowed us to go back and forth between experiences. Taylor and I were talking all along, and also talking about sound, as it plays such a critical role in this. We recorded sound everywhere, but then it was a matter of, which scenes are we really going to drop the sound out of?

We didn’t plan to use sound everywhere, but at least we had it – and thank God we did as some of the scenes that had been scripted as silent actually ended up with dialogue in them, and some of the scenes that had dialogue ended up without it. So it was a constant back and forth process, which lasted all the way through to the final mix.

How involved were you in all the post and who was on the team?
I was already involved in another Ryan Murphy series, The Watchmen, so I had Alexis Martin Woodall, president of Ryan Murphy Productions who’s brilliant in post, and she’s a former post supervisor, and is our secret weapon.

Then there’s Regis Kimble, who’s the post supervising editor, and he cut some of the episodes and also worked closely with all the editors to make sure the tone and style and look were consistent. Not every show has this, but having Regis was a godsend.

Then Todd Nenninger, a producer and post supervisor, was doing everything from dealing with the editors and the colorist to the VFX houses and locking in the sound on a day-to-day basis, and we’ve worked together on every Ryan show I’ve done going back to Glee. And he works closely with Scott James, the co-producer. They’re the people who actually executed my dreams on the stage and traveled this thing from start to finish, and I trust them completely.

I was already involved in another Ryan Murphy series, The Watchmen, so I had Alexis Martin Woodall, president of Ryan Murphy Productions, who’s brilliant in post. She’s a former post supervisor and our secret weapon. On some shows, I worry about post, but this team always makes things better. And directing this was very interesting from a post perspective, because Episode 6 starts with a very different look. It’s generally a brighter, sunnier look, and even the nights are not quite as dark and quite as yellow, because we’re living in Tony Hughes’ world. So the club scenes are more alive and have more vibrant colors. But then, as Dahmer intrudes into this world, we began to come back to some of the visual vocabulary, color and style that you associated with him before.

So when he considers crushing the pillows and trying to drug Tony, you see it go back to the style you’ve gotten used to. He’s center-punched in the middle of the frame in very tight focus, and the colors of yellow and despair that we’ve associated with him come back. And all that ends up with the final scene where we’re surrounded in the darkness of his apartment by dank yellows, until finally he’s enclosed completely in black. And the orchestra’s playing the cello line intermittently though the entire episode, and that cello line keeps getting stronger and stronger until at the end when the cello becomes a bass, and the sound drops out of the bottom. So all that’s part of the mix of that particular episode.

What was involved in terms of VFX?
There were very few visual effects in Episode 6. The main ones were for the baby in the first scene, to keep it animated and alive, as some of the baby footage wasn’t of a real baby. We also did some production and period clean-up. This was done by Fuse FX.

For Episode 10, where we see Dahmer being killed in prison, we used a lot of VFX to make it all as vivid as we needed. We had to change his face a bit, add blood and sometimes detract blood, so all that was a VFX surgery and redo to make sure it was all balanced and worked the way we wanted.

What about the DI?
Doug Delaney at Picture Shop was our final colorist, and he did all 10 episodes in the series. He’s brilliant. For instance, he brought in some of the brighter tones that lifted Tony Hughes’ world and all the optimism and took it back to Dahmer’s yellow, dark world in the end.

You’ve directed so many great shows. How do you rate this experience?
It was the most challenging because of the subject matter and my personal feelings about Dahmer, and the complexities of dealing with deaf actors, and also the sound issues.

The sound team from Formosa Group handled the sound mix, and we had a great team — supervising sound editor Gary Megregian, and re-recording mixers Laura Wiest, Jamie Hardt and Joe Barnett. This was really a sound show, and that made it more complicated than Glee with all the music. So you ask, exactly when do you lose the sound, and what replaces it? What about creating the sound of what a deaf person might hear? They created this roar that had a feel and flavor to it, that wasn’t quite a plane or air, that had to be imagined by people, and they did a terrific job.

Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.


Nexus

Nexus Studios Adds Commercial Director Emily Dean

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London- and LA-based Nexus Studios, which works with directors across animation, live-action and immersive, has signed Emily Dean to its roster for commercial representation globally. Dean’s experience working with animation for adult audiences was showcased recently through her directorial work on the Emmy Award-winning Netflix animated series Love, Death & Robots.

Dean is an Asian Australian writer, director and artist living in LA. Alongside her directorial work, she has made significant story artist and visual consultant contributions to major films such as The Lego Batman Movie, The Lego Movie 2, Scoob! Hotel Artemis and the Oscar-winning Hair Love. During this time, Dean worked closely with Pixar, Warner Bros., Animal Logic, Lionsgate and Sony Pictures Animation.

In 2023 Emily was awarded an Annie Award for Best Storyboarding TV/Media for her episode of Love, Death & Robots called “The Very Pulse of the Machine.”

Dean’s journey in filmmaking began in rural Australia, where she developed a passion for drawing and storytelling at a young age. Driven by her dedication to animation, she pursued further education at the Australian Film TV and Radio School and later at the California Institute of the Arts.

Her independent animated short film Forget Me Not was inspired by her family’s experience with Alzheimer’s disease and earned her a nomination for Best Short Animation at the Australian Academy Awards.

Dean also works with live action, as evidenced by her live-action sci-fi short film Andromeda, which toured film festivals including LA Shorts International Film Festival and was picked up by sci-fi streaming platform Dust.

 

 


Shooting Indie Esme, My Love: Director and DP Talk Look

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By Randi Altman

Audio post pro and Silver Sound Studio owner Cory Choy recently directed and produced the indie film Esme, My Love, which he co-wrote with scriptwriter Laura Allen. Choy came up with a rough outline, plot points, characters and backstories, and Allen helped him mold it into what it is today… a psychological thriller/mystery that is now streaming on Prime Video, Google Play, Tubi and Vudu.

Director Cory Choy having fun on set with co-writer Laura Allen.

The film follows Hannah, who notices the symptoms of a terminal and painful illness in her aloof daughter, Esme. She decides to take her on a trip to their abandoned family farm in a desperate attempt to connect before they have to say goodbye.

To capture the film’s authentic feel, “Laura and I went up to the location in Hauge, New York — and specifically the DeLarm family farm — and walked around the property and talked to the town historian. We stayed in the area overnight and really took it all in. Then Laura wrote the first draft of the screenplay, and we revised together.

We reached out to Choy to talk about making the film. DP Fletcher Wolfe answered some questions as well. Her section appears after Choy’s.

What was the film shot on, and how did you work with your DP, Fletcher?
Fletcher brings so much to the table because of her attention to detail, her laserlike focus on prep and her many years as a gaffer/lighting technician. Fletcher is a true director of photography in that she knows lighting inside and out, and she knows how to effectively run the camera department… and even grip and electrical G&E, should she need to. We shot the film on a combination of ARRI Alexa Mini and Canon C200 RAW with Cooke Panchro Classic primes and Canon Cinema zooms.

What about the lighting setups? Was it mostly natural light?
There were very few lights in this movie. Outdoors was almost all natural light, with a good amount of reflectors and flags — again, a testament to Fletcher’s experience and artistry. Even the shots where there were lights, they were pretty minimal (night for night and interiors).

How long was the shoot?
This was an extremely low-budget film; we only had a $90,000 shooting budget, so we had to be as efficient as possible. We shot on location in Hague, with 13 days of principal photography, two planned pick-up days at Bravo Studios in NYC, and one unplanned pick-up day at a pool in Fletcher’s friend’s parents’ backyard.

How did you and Fletcher work with the colorist? How did you describe the look you wanted?
Tom Younghans was the colorist, and we were really fortunate to work with him. He not only colored the film using DaVinci Resolve, but he also has a lot of experience with conform. Without Tom’s expertise, dedication and time, we would never have been able to get such a nice conform and color. Even though this was, I believe, his first feature film, he really put in the time and effort to make it what we wanted it to be.

I had a pretty good idea of how I wanted the movie to feel — my biggest look/visual reference being The Tree of Life. I wanted it to have a filmic and dreaminess to it. So our plan of attack was to first have Tom go through and even things out to the best of his ability, then dial in the look of the grain and then go in scene by scene to tweak.

Any examples of notes you had for Tom?
I wanted outdoors to feel real and nostalgic, and often this meant making night scenes darker and daylight scenes brighter. There were times when the sky wasn’t cooperative, and Tom did a great job turning some pretty dull skies slightly more vibrant and blue.

I was with Tom for most of the color process.

Let’s talk editing. How often were you looking at cuts?
It was an extremely long editing process for several reasons, and I worked with several different editors before I was able to land on Emrys Eller and Ellie Gravitte, who ended up being the main editors on the film. Once I was with the right team, I would check in on individual scenes with them once or twice a week.

Let’s talk pace. It’s definitely spooky. How did the editors tackle that, and what guidance did you provide?
This movie is a slow burn until it isn’t, if that makes sense. Once it hits, it really takes off. Oftentimes, pacing was dictated by a combination of our shooting style and the emotional content of the scene. Many scenes in the first act feature very long, static takes. (Old Joy was one of my inspirations.) But when we started to get to the internal frenetic state of some of the characters and memory and time, we moved to more and more shots, and therefore more cuts per scene.

One of the most difficult stages to get to was a full assembly of the film. For whatever reason that eluded me and my editors for a long time. One of the crucial scenes was actually written in editing by one of my editors, Emrys, and I have to say that it was the linchpin that really brought it all together. It was the baptism scene. After figuring out that scene, the rest of the movie finally fell into place.

After we actually got to a full assembly and rough cut, we then mainly focused on trimming the fat. I had both Ellie and Emrys go through individually and be as ruthless as possible, removing every single scene they didn’t think we needed. And it was funny because each of them chose different scenes to remove. I looked at each of their choices and kept the cuts that I thought made the most sense. Ironically, we ended up cutting some of the best performances and two of my absolute favorite scenes. That kind of broke my heart. But in the end, the movie was better as a whole without them – and I got to keep them in my “deleted scenes” bonus on the DVD.

You wore a few hats on this film. Can you talk about that?
I think one of the things that was most difficult about this film is that I was not just wearing my director hat. I was also the main producer. If I could go back and do it again, that is the thing I would change. It was hard to move from the logistical to the story, but once I did, it was really rewarding.

What was the film edited on? And do you have any examples of notes?
We ultimately edited in Adobe Premiere, though an earlier version was on Avid Media Composer. Media Composer was fine, though I wish it had been a little more stable. (Switching between Mac and PC was a nightmare for some reason. All the media kept coming unlinked even though we were staying in Premiere, and we eventually had to abandon a faster and better workstation because switching became such a problem.)

Who did the audio post? Were you hands-on?
I was the sound designer and mixer and editor for the audio post. My friend and colleague, Tarcisio Longobardi, helped a little with the organization and sound editing and some backgrounds, but I did 95% of the post audio myself. As the director, I actually found it essential to do the post sound since sound and VO play such an important role in telling the story.

What about the score, which plays a big part?
I was also incredibly involved with the score, which evolved over a long period of time with me, Emrys and my composers, Charlotte Littlehales and Stephanie Griffin. Much of the score was melodically related to the credit song “Atlantis,” which was written by a childhood friend of mine, Jake Herndon, when he was in middle school. Charlotte and Stephanie and I had many, many phone calls and sessions in regard to score.

DP Fletcher Wolf

DP Fletcher Wolf

Fletcher, can you talk about why you chose the camera and lenses you did? Was it mostly natural light? I almost feel like the light is another character in the film. Were you using on-set LUTs?We shot on Alexa Mini with Cooke Panchro Classics. B-unit work was shot on a Canon C200 and a Canon cine zoom that we got through the Canon co-marketing program. In spite of the tight budget, we wanted it to look the best it could, so there was a lot of borrowing and kind help all around to get some tools we knew we could depend on. The day exteriors were mostly natural light augmented with bounce and negative fill. Day interiors were typically natural window light augmented with a LiteMat. Some of the night exteriors and the basement scene were keyed mostly with flashlights.

We were viewing most scenes on-set with one of my old go-to LUTs. But for the day-for-night scenes, we monitored with a LUT I built for this project. I did a camera test at Hand Held Films with soft, toppy light and a chip chart. Then, with that footage, I shifted it blue until it felt monochrome and pulled exposure down until middle-gray was about four stops under. That way I could shoot properly exposed footage so faces would be visible when necessary, but we could all see what it was going to look like as we shot it.

Any piece of gear that was absolutely crucial/especially helpful?
Our 4×4 floppy solids and sky-blue muslin bounce. Those were our main tools for day exteriors, which is the bulk of the film. Also, the T-Bag underwater housing from Air Sea Land, which worked beautifully when we shot the underwater pickup shots. (That was after a failed first attempt in the lake.)

Did you do any camera tests? What did you learn?
Besides the little test I shot to build the day-for-night LUT, we didn’t do any traditional camera tests for A camera. (This was a microbudget, after all.) I did a brief test to make sure the C200 footage could be matched reasonably well to the Alexa and to see if there were any quirks to matching the exposures. (Underexposing worked for our project.)

We did, however, do some interesting camera tests during casting, which I shot. Cory wanted to get a feel for how the two actors would play together on-screen as mother and daughter. We used a C300 in Prospect Park for camera tests and auditions. It actually wound up informing our shortlisting for the scenes they read.

How did you work with Cory to help him get the look he envisioned?
From the beginning Cory wanted the woods and the old family farmhouse to feel like characters. They had to be both magical and dreadful at different times, but heavy with importance either way. For scenes where we didn’t have much lighting control, I tried to work the schedule to use the natural light and weather to lean in to which of those moods we needed to feel in any given scene. Since Cory comes from sound mixing, he provided some recorded narration and soundscapes in prep that conveyed the mood he was going for. That was a cool tool to have, and I understood what he was going for. I feel like I was able to translate the sounds into images.

Before shot-listing, I like to do what I call an emotional or psychological pass of a script, where I take note of emotional beats, whose perspective each scene is from and what’s going on with the characters internally. Then I bring those thoughts and questions to the director, and we tease out a map of the characters’ arcs. That’s the main thing for me that guides shot choices — what is the camera seeing? During that process Cory and I realized that halfway through the film, the perspective shifts from Hannah as the protagonist to Esme taking the lead, so we built that transition into the shot choices.

Any scenes that stand out as the most challenging?
The underwater scene was certainly one of the hardest. We shot all the above-water parts on an island that we had to shuttle out to on a boat. When it came time to do the underwater shots, there was a leak in our underwater housing for the camera. Those of us in the water were freezing despite our wetsuits, and the water was too murky to see anything. We wound up doing a pickup day in my friend’s pool to get the underwater shots. (Thank you, Brodsky family!)

The other hardest scene was the night exterior fight scene. That was shot day for night, there was a fair amount of choreography to cover, and we had someone dig us the big hole/grave with a backhoe. The cast did a great job working through it. I had hoped for a cloudy day to help us sell the day-for-night look, but alas, I didn’t get lucky, and at that point, we were out of days to shift around in the schedule. I tried to bring up the actors’ faces by blasting our strongest battery-powered lights at them (a trick I learned when gaffing for cinematographer Adam Jandrup), but they couldn’t really get close enough due to the fight choreography. That scene was probably our biggest challenge in the color grade.

Any happy accidents happen on-set?
Our most memorable happy accident was on the final shot, when Esme walks off into the distance for about two minutes while the credits roll. We scheduled it for sunset, but on the day we were scheduled to film it, the sky was completely overcast and gray, much to my dismay. We decided we couldn’t afford to reschedule it. We did a couple takes in the road with our PAs holding traffic back just off-screen. (God bless them.) We decided we needed a third take, and about halfway through that one, the clouds in the west parted, and a fiery pink and orange sunset broke through. It was glorious. I’m so glad we didn’t decide to shoot it on a different day.

How did you express the look you wanted to the colorist? What were some notes you provided about the look after seeing dailies?
I put together a lookbook for Tom ahead of time. It was separated into day exterior, day interior, day for night, night exterior, tent interior and underwater. My main notes were that I wanted to find a look that was dark, moody and natural, toning down green foliage a bit and drawing our eye toward warm skin tones. My eye tends to buck any super-strong grade that looks heavily affected in post, so we started our session choosing some film emulation LUTs and going from there.

Did the film end up looking the way you expected it to?
For the most part, yes — as much as any film does when it moves from visions in my head to concrete images dozens of people collaborate to make. The main surprises for me were probably from our B-unit photographer. We brought in our old friend Nathan “Bob” Jones for that. He shot most of the “monster” footage and a lot of the atmospheric b-roll. He and I were checking in after wrap each day to go over what he’d gotten, but I couldn’t review all of his footage, so there were shots that made it into the cut that I hadn’t seen before.

There were wonderful surprises — to see that he’d found a caterpillar or filmed an entire unscripted scene in a wide shot at the lake. He did amazing work, largely with little or sometimes no other crew to support him. His shots really weave the story together with unusual views of the forest.

Randi Altman is the founder and editor-in-chief of postPerspective. She has been covering production and post production for more than 25 years. 

Podcast 12.4

Nikki McMorrow on Directing, Editing Square’s ‘Made to Order’ Spots

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Square’s recent “Made to Order” campaign promotes the company’s Square Online service. Directed and edited by Nikki McMorrow of GLP Creative, “Made to Order” is her fourth collaboration with Square, having previously directed several of their brand films for the US and Canadian markets.

The stories, which feature a frenetic but playful feel and feature a variety of characters and interwoven scenes. They are told through kinetic shots, subtle performances, layered blocking and vibrant production design. In the Made to Order Retail spot, doting pet owners place and receive orders on-the-go through their local pet shop’s Square Online platform. In the Made to Order Restaurants spot, a group of hungry gamers order falafels from a popular Mediterranean café, demonstrating the capabilities of the café’s Square Online platform.

Dynamic camera movement, visual effects and choreographed transitions are key to the “Made to Order” campaign. To achieve the variety of moves in the spots, McMorrow employed the use of the ARRI Trinity 2 camera stabilization system. Operated by Ari Robbins (Everywhere All at Once, La La Land), the Trinity 2 delivered an impressive range of motion, speed and mobility. The campaign was shot with a Red camera.

Nikki McMorrow on-set

We reached out to McMorrow to find out more about her dual roles…

How did being an editor help in directing? Editorial savvy allows the director to be more efficient during production and gives them more

control over the final cut.  Knowing exactly how I intended to cut the spot ahead of production helped streamline our shoot and the post process.

How did being the director help in the editing?
Directing and editing your own work holds you accountable for the decisions made during production.  The more you understand how clear direction impacts the edit, the more intentional you can be on the shoot. Knowing how to communicate clearly from production through post will give the editor a clear sense of direction and help steer the final cut.

Why did you opt to edit as well? 
In most cases, I prefer to work with an editor. Editors bring a fresh perspective to the project and can take it to the next level. For this project, I shot an animatic and mapped out the sequences in preproduction. I was very intentional about how each shot was timed and choreographed to transition into the next. This allowed me to work quickly and efficiently through the rough cut while executing my vision.

What came first for you? Directing or editing?
When you start out directing you end up cutting a lot of your own work, so they went hand-in-hand. Professionally, I gained experience in editorial, motion graphics and VFX before taking on director roles. This experience helped shape and continues to evolve my directorial style.

What editing system did you use? Who did the color?
The edit was done in Adobe Premiere Pro. And I worked with the brilliant Rob Bessette at Color Refinery to achieve the look in DaVinci Resolve.

Podcast 12.4

Director Christina Xing Talks Kinder Bueno Spots

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Rodeo Show director Christina Xing helmed a pair of spots for a new campaign for Kinder Bueno chocolate bar.

Conceived by Publicis New York, A Summer Journey Made to Savor (:15) begins with a shot of an SUV packed for a road trip. Someone sneaks a handful of Kinder Bueno and hops in the passenger seat, and they hit the road, moving to the music along the way. The spot ends near a mountain, where the cheerful friends capture selfies of their Kinder Bueno adventure.

The :06 Summer White Chocolate spot kicks off where the hero spot concludes, with a up-close shot of one of the friends, whose eyes widen with joy as she bites into a Kinder Bueno White Chocolate.

“These spots are all about the fun and warmth of those road trips with your besties — inside jokes, the epic playlist, the beautiful vistas and all those shared moments in between that are all the sweeter with Kinder Bueno,” remarks Xing.

Working closely with cinematographer and frequent collaborator Ben Mullen (who used an Alexa Mini LF with signature prime lenses), Xing looked to capture portraits of friendship, framing each moment with a balance of authenticity and whimsy, particularly the up-close moments where the actors bite into the candy bar and the energy shifts.

“Casting was essential to telling our story and bringing what I call the ‘Kinder Bueno moments’ to life,” explains Xing. “They were the most important shots and required natural and playful performances with a silent film-like expressiveness to sell the deliciousness without being too over the top. We enhanced these moments with precision through the rhythm of the cinematography and the edit.”

PXP’s Luke Sloma edited the spots on Adobe Premiere. PXO’s Jeff Altman provided the color grade.

For the car shoot, Xing used a process trailer, which provided several advantages. It enabled smoother shots and controlled lighting without the need to stop and set up different shots and angles during the one-day shoot. The process trailer also allowed the actors to bring the required loose and carefree energy to their performances without the added anxiety of driving.

The Rodeo Show crew shot in Shadow Oaks Ranch, the perfect location for capturing the static shots of the story’s escape into nature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perry Mason

Director Marialy Rivas on Season 2 of HBO’s Perry Mason

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By Iain Blair

Perry Mason, HBO’s origin story of TV’s famous legal eagle from the ’50s and ‘60s, is back for Season 2 with a twisty new murder case for the investigator to solve. This time the scion of a powerful oil family is murdered, and Mason and team find themselves at the center of a case that will uncover far-reaching conspiracies.

Director Marialy Rivas

This season of this noir series has new showrunners, Michael Begler and Jack Amiel, creators of The Knick. They take over from the show’s creators, Rolin Jones and Ron Fitzgerald. Perry Mason’s creative team also expanded its horizons to bring in more fresh eyes, including Chilean director/writer Marialy Rivas, whose credits include Young & Wild, winner of the World Cinema Screenwriting Award at Sundance.

I recently spoke with Rivas about directing Perry Mason‘s Episode 5 and Episode 8, the challenges and her love of post production.

What were the challenges of directing your episodes, and how did you prepare?
I researched all the work they’d done in Season 1 because, of course, it was really important to get to know the show. I also studied a lot of films from the ‘30s and ‘40s, both noir and other genres, and I looked at photographs from the era. I watched the new episodes they’d already done so I could understand the approach and so I could keep the continuity with my episodes. And when I arrived on the production, I could also look at all the work done by production designer Keith Cunningham and costume designer Catherine Adair. They’d done a lot of research, so I had all those visuals to work from.

Perry MasonTell us about prep. What was involved?
It was different for each episode. It was about three weeks for each episode, maybe a bit less for Episode 8. For Episode 5, I wanted to go on the shoot of the previous episode so I could get to know the crew and see how it all worked, so I arrived early on the show.

The show has this great, moody, noir look. What cameras and lenses did you shoot on, and can you talk about working with your DP?
As this is the second season, it’s a well-oiled machine, and the camera, lenses and lighting packages were already set up by the great DPs I worked with — Eliot Rockett and Darran Tiernan. We shot with the same setup used in the first season [the Sony Venice 6K 3:2 full sensor (6048×4032) with a 2:1 aspect ratio and anamorphic lenses].

All those decisions had already been made, so when I arrived, I could just enjoy their amazing work and collaborating with them. Eliot shot Episode 5 for me, and Darran shot Episode 8. It was very interesting to work with two DPs, as they each have a different approach to the work — and even on how to shoot a scene.

For instance, both episodes have court scenes, but the way Eliot shot it was like going from a wide angle to a small, and then we changed direction with the other cameras. Whereas with Darran, I’d tell him “I want all these shots,” and he’d look at the list and decide to put one camera here, another there and so on. It was a completely different way to set up the three cameras in the exact same space, and they used different lights, but in the end it all works because their mindset of telling the story meshed together.

What about the LUTs?
They were also all set up for the first episode, so when I arrived, I could just focus on the beauty of setting up the lights and getting the look we wanted.

Talk about the shoot. How tough was it?
I’d say that for a TV show, we had the necessary amount of time to shoot each scene. Sometimes you’re rushing through scenes in TV, but here everything worked like a Swiss clock, very exact and efficient. So if they said, “This will take four hours,” it was more than enough to shoot even a complex scene.

Perry MasonThe crew was amazing, as were all the actors, and I knew the camera crew and first AD were going to give me the best possible frame. They were so talented and creative that it was almost impossible to go wrong in a sense. We had about 15 days to shoot each episode, and we were based on the lot at Warner Bros., where all our sets were built on stages. We also shot on location all over LA for certain exteriors and interiors, and we used some houses and streets. The location scouts were very smart about what they picked. You’d think that in order to create the ‘30s period, you’d need a lot of greenscreen work, but we didn’t. They carefully chose places we could shoot from different angles. Coupled with VFX work in post, we could make it look just like LA in the ‘30s.

Even though there wasn’t much greenscreen work, all period pieces need VFX. How involved were you in that?
Yes, we had to do a lot of VFX work in post, creating all the water scenes and the ships in the first two episodes, for instance. Since I arrived early, I was able to be on the shoot, and it was amazing how they did it — combining a “real” piece of ship on-set and then adding all the VFX extensions in post. The piece was big, but it was very small in comparison to the size of the actual ship and all the water, so bravo to the post team.Perry Mason

For Episode 5, we did some scenes outside a hotel and used greenscreen off in the distance. I like post production a lot, and I think the best way to do it is when you really plan it from the very beginning. You ask the post producers what they need. How can I help? Does this work? That way you plan out all the shots together, and we’re all on the same page and speaking the same language. I always try to work with the post team and the VFX team as early as possible, and we’ve used quite a lot of VFX houses on the show [including Crafty Apes, PixelKrush, Onyx VFX, Folks VFX, Digital Domain, Pixomondo, Technicolor VFX and Lola VFX].

The DI was done with colorist Pankaj Bajpai at Picture Shop in West Hollywood, but I wasn’t there for that, as it was done far later. I’m very used to doing all the grading with the DP and the colorist for all my own movies and projects, and I love the DI. It’s such an expressive, amazing tool for communicating with the audience.

What was the hardest scene to direct and shoot?
For me, it was the scene of the raid of the Latino family. We shot it on location, and it was the night of my birthday. It was very emotional and personal for me, as I grew up under the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile when the military was doing very violent raids like this one. So recreating this very powerful scene with the police and kids brought back very intense childhood memories for me.

I assume you’d love to come back for the next season and direct again.
I’d love to come back. LA in the ‘30s – who doesn’t want to shoot that? It’s that insane. You’re there with 400 extras, all in period clothes on huge sets. It doesn’t get better than that.

Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

John Wick: Chapter 4 Director Talks Color, VFX and Editing

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By Iain Blair

Since the first John Wick introduced Keanu Reeves as a lethal but tortured assassin back in 2014, Reeves and director Chad Stahelski have built a global franchise that showcases kinetic action scenes and beautifully choreographed fight sequences. Their latest outing together, John Wick: Chapter 4, is even more awesome as Wick once again takes on the worldwide crime syndicate The High Table in an ultra-violent, balletic revenge tale stuffed full of spectacular stunts, exotic locations and a range of weaponry.

To pull this all together, Stahelski enlisted director of photography Dan Laustsen (ASC, DFF), editor Nathan Orloff and visual effects supervisors Jonathan Rothbart and Janelle Croshaw.

Actor Donnie Yen and Chad Stahelski (right) on-set

I spoke with Stahelski, an ex-stuntman who doubled for Keanu in The Matrix, about making this latest iteration, working on the visual effects, post, editing and the importance of color.

This franchise seems like a perfect fit for you, but how do you keep topping yourself with story, stunts, technology and more?
It’s more that we try to expand and evolve. You try to be a better director, Keanu tries to expand his skillsets, but we also put the same burden on our crew and post team. So for DP Dan Laustsen, it’s, “How do we push the color envelope? How do we change the palette?” For supervising sound editor Mark Stoeckinger and team at Formosa Sound, it’s, “How do you make this sound different from all the other action films out there?”

You have to care about every detail, and there are a thousand different tracks in the sound design alone. Every gun has a different sound. It’s also all the evolving technology.

Can you talk about working with your DP, Dan, and the evolution of that process?
When we did John Wick 3, you could tell that Dan and I liked pushing highlights and contrast, but the Alexa cameras we used then still weren’t hitting the reds the right way. But in the last few years, Alexa cameras have taken a huge jump in that area. And then colorist Jill Bogdanowicz and the DI at Company 3 are a huge part of it all.

Dan and I lace it all together and build the foundation, but she’s so important to the whole look of the film. You can’t have cherry blossom trees in Osaka with purples and pinks and still get good skin tones, and then change the whole thing to green. I need help with that in the DI. DaVinci Resolve has come a long way in the last few years, along with what you can now do in the DI.

And when it’s screening on IMAX, we can really push the colors and sound. So when Keanu’s on the rooftops in Osaka, I’m pushing the reds and blacks as far as I can. We color based on IMAX and what we can do with laser projection, and we’re pushing colors and contrast to the limit.

I assume you started integrating the DI early?
Yes, we also began working on the look and the DI on day one. Light Iron did the first John Wick, but ever since, I’ve been with Jill and Company 3. Talk about going to school. How would you like to sit in on 100 hours of DI with Dan Laustsen and Jill Bogdanowicz? Her dad kind of invented the algorithm for the DI, and you’re talking about painting class and artistry, not even technology. I’ve spent nine years of my life with them, learning Resolve and the capabilities of Power Windows and what you can do with color, and it’s an immense subject.

We brought Jill in right at the start, and I told her, “If you thought the last film was kooky, wait until you see what we’re doing this time with a whole new spectrum of colors. And we’re not just going to go neon to noir. I’m going to push the highlights and bring the blacks back. I’m going to skylight Keanu, and we’re not going to see an eye. We’re going portrait.” And Dan’s going ‘Yeah!’ and Jill’s like, ‘OK, but your VFX are probably going to fall apart in the mid-range.’” But she’s 100% down for trying anything. She and Dan worked on all the LUTs right away, and then Dan and I go off for a year and tackle stuff like, “How’re we gonna refract off waterfalls? How do we stage a huge gun fight in the middle of 50 cars racing around the Arc de Triomphe? And we’re shooting all this at night, so how do we light all this?”

Keanu Reeves and Chad Stahelski

In terms of post, I’d bring Jill in to look at sequences before we’d even done an assembly so she could wrap her head around it all. She’s constantly working and learning about different looks, and she’s constantly coming back to me with ideas, so by the time Dan and I are in the DI with her, she’s already done the LUT tables and begun coloring. Because no matter what Dan and I do and set in the DIT on the day, we still want to push that creative margin, and Jill’s very good about setting us up to succeed in that area.

So when we’re on the Resolve, we’re really pushing it. The problem is getting everyone else up to it, from wardrobe to makeup and so on, and we did some really nutty stuff, especially with our villain the Marquis (Bill Skarsgard). We knew we’d light him with ambers and off-blues, so we also stitched reflective silver threads into all his outfits so that he kicks in every scene and always has this shimmer. That’s just one small example. So it’s crucial to plan ahead and have everyone on the same page from the very start.

Did you do a ton of previz for all the huge action sequences?
Not as much as you’d expect. It’s hard to previz stuff like the scenes at Sacre-Coeur, in a Berlin club with 44 waterfalls or 50 cars in a roundabout, so I don’t need my stunt team spending three weeks shooting previz. I need them to train my cast for five months, and then Dan and I will figure it all out. If I was doing this for another director, our previz would be very detailed and edited with music and sound effects. But for this, my team just has to show me the gist of it – the wide shot and so on — and then I start calculating. And Dan’s there shooting it. It’s not just a phone-in thing.

Where was the post done?
At my LA production offices in Manhattan Beach and at Formosa Sound. I have so much fun working on the sound with Mark and his team at Formosa. They truly love action films and are so detailed in their work. I love the music and creating character themes.

As for VFX, we farmed them out to vendors all over the world, depending on what was needed. We came in at well over a dozen for the main ones, including Rodeo, Crafty Apes, One of Us, The Yard, Pixomondo and Mavericks. [Others included Light, WeFX, Tryptyc, Atomic Arts, Incessant Rain, Queen, Halon, Boxel and FotoKem]. It’s a lot, but that’s what it takes.

Do you like the post process?
I love it, especially the editing and sound and DI. But it’s a love-hate relationship when it comes to the VFX. Look, I’m all for VFX. I’m not someone who feels we have to do it all practically. What VFX have done for safety alone in the industry is huge and mind-boggling, and I think that’s completely underappreciated. My only beef is when you use them as a creative “out,” as in when you don’t have an idea so you just decide to “fix it in post.”

I don’t want a VFX vendor creating something I had nothing to do with. It’s always that equation of time versus money with VFX, and on this we had a couple of vendors overdeliver and a couple underdeliver. We actually had to re-edit two sequences because the standard of VFX we needed just wasn’t there. But I’d say 95% of our VFX vendors really delivered.

Can you talk about editing with Nathan Orloff?
He was on-location with me so he could start on the assembly with his assistant as we shot. It’s nothing too decisive – more to have the vibe of what we’re getting — and the first assembly came in at about 3 hours and 45 minutes.

We have what I call a symmetrical editing style. I’m very fond of big establishing shots and showing geography and then focusing on live performance. I like to gradually suck you in with the medium shots and overs and then rotate the camera to bring you into the closeups — which I try to use very sparingly. Then I ease you out with the reverse pattern.

Chad Stahelski and Keanu Reeves

So it’s “wide-medium-tight-tight-medium-wide” aesthetic, and once you develop that, it’s very easy to play within it, and it gives the style to the editing from the start. Then we’ll go through performance, then pace and rhythm, and by the end I’ve probably cut each scene hundreds of times. There’s always that agonizing balance between look and performance.

Fair to say that the DI is more important to you than for most directors?
Absolutely. I’d say I spend more time with my colorist than 98% of directors. I’m totally fascinated with the DI — how you can shape your film and the look with the Power Windows and all the artistry that goes into it. I just love that whole process, and I think the film looks so beautiful.

Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

Aliens

Sundance: Directing Aliens Abducted My Parents… Feel Left Out        

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The Sundance film Aliens Abducted My Parents and Now I Feel Kinda Left Out follows Itsy Levan, who is devastated by her parents’ decision to leave the city and buy a fixer-upper in the middle of nowhere. Her life seems over until she meets her space-obsessed neighbor Calvin Kipler, who believes that his parents were abducted by aliens 10 years ago on the night Jesper’s comet was seen. Itsy sees this as her chance to get into a New York City journalism program by writing an exposé on Calvin, but she ends up discovering much more than what’s on the other end of the comet’s tail.

Aliens

Jake Van Wagoner

The cast includes Will Forte, Emma Tremblay, Elizabeth Mitchell and Jacob Buster.

The film was produced and directed by Jake Van Wagoner, who was first pitched the film’s title from screenwriter Austin Everett. “I loved it immediately,” he says. “I remember telling him that I didn’t need to hear any more and to start writing it. We were lucky enough to have funding right away, and as he was writing, I was already putting the production plan together so that as soon as the script was done, we were able to move into production.”

We spoke to Van Wagoner about working with the film’s editor, Whitney Houser, and his process on this film, which was shot by cinematographer Jeremy Prusso on an ARRI Alexa Mini LF.

How often were you looking at the editor’s cut?
Editor Whitney Houser sent me an assembly, and from then on, I was reviewing cuts. She would send a cut, I would watch and make notes, and then we’d start going through the film together.

What was it edited on?
We used Adobe Premiere Pro. It’s just such an intuitive system, and our post house only runs on Premiere, so it was kind of a no-brainer.

Where did you do the post?
We were split between Utah and LA. Our editor was in LA but our finishing team and director (me) were in Utah. 

Was there a particular scene that was most challenging in the edit?
The last scene of the movie. It was critical to get the pacing right. There’s so much going on in that scene — it was 7-degrees outside, we had kids, a lot of pages, special effects, cranes, and we were trying not to go into overtime. It was only possible because the crew literally jumped from shot to shot with minimal set-up time and Jeremy (our DP) lit the scene to be shot from almost any angel with minimal adjustments. It took a while to get it dialed in, but we ended up really nailing it. I’m very proud of what we ended up with.
Aliens

How did you manage your time in relation to the edit?
Being the producer on the film as well, I knew what deadlines we needed to hit and was able to keep the cuts on schedule.

How do you manage your expectations with what can really be done?
I have very high expectations, but luckily, I’m also very realistic. So when it came to what could be done and what I wanted to be done, I feel like I was pretty aligned with the editor. We knew what movie we wanted to make and what movie we could make, and luckily the two lined up pretty well. Whitney was really good at working until it was perfect. It’s really nice to work with a perfectionist as an editor.

How do you take feedback in the editor suite?
I enjoy the collaboration between the editor, myself and the other creatives. I try to not be defensive. In the end, everyone is trying to make the movie better, and I will always let the best idea win.

When someone who is starting out as an editor asks what they should learn, what do you recommend?
Pacing. Pacing is the biggest thing to me. If you can learn to pace out a scene, hitting the comedy, the heart and the emotion, you’ll never stop working.

Tár

Director Todd Field on Tár’s Production, VFX and Post

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By Iain Blair

It’s been 16 years since writer/director Todd Field’s last movie, the Oscar-nominated Little Children, but the wait has been worth it. His new film, Tár, another multi-faceted gem, is a drama about erotic obsession, the beauty of art and the ugliness of abusive behavior — all set in the highbrow world of classical music.

Tár

Todd Field

The film stars Cate Blanchett as Lydia Tár, a superstar conductor and musician who’s also something of an obsessive dictator. She carefully micromanages her famed career and public image, while offstage her messy private life begins to spiral out of control.

I talked to Field — whose directorial debut was the Oscar-nominated 2001 drama In the Bedroom — about making the film, his love of post and dealing with visual effects. Tár was nominated for six Oscar awards this year, including Best Picture and Best Director.

Talk about working with your DP Florian Hoffmeister (BSC). How early did you start, and how did that affect building the look?
I had first seen Florian’s work on the Ridley Scott-produced The Terror, directed by Edward Berger for AMC. The quality of Florian’s lighting on the actors’ faces was so true, which is very impressive considering it’s all done onstage with a lot of blue- and greenscreen and contamination. It really struck me, as it’s the hardest thing to do.

We weren’t really looking for any particular lighting scheme on this, other than the truth of the locations and builds and sets. It was more about a baseline, and we began testing a lot very early on. We tested for about four months, which was a real luxury, as you usually never get that much time with a DP.

We had a New York shoot at the top that Florian couldn’t make, so he did a remote, and we went to colorist Tim Masick’s DI suite at Company 3 in New York and looked at various lens tests, trying to figure that out before we began prepping and shooting in Berlin.

ARRI Berlin ended up building a whole set of custom lenses for us, and a custom print emulsion system they now integrate into all their cameras, which is great for DPs. Now they can expose and have it baked into the file, whatever the emulsions are. So there’s a baseline now when they get into the color suite. It’s not the Wild West, and it gives the DP a lot more control and a foundation on which to build the look.

How long was the shoot, and how tough was it?
We had 65 days, which sounds like a lot, but it was very challenging because we shot in so many locations — ranging from New York and Berlin to Southeast Asia. We had nine days with the Dresden, which was amazing, but we had to do a lot of rehearsal for that – both the for the acting and for the music.

That was the only constant in the schedule, which included a lot of interiors, such as Tár’s childhood home; her old Berlin apartment; and various concert halls, hotels and restaurants. We had 250 scenes, and that meant many moves, so it was very tricky in terms of logistics.

Obviously, the audio for all the concert scenes was crucial. Did you record the music live onstage?
Yes, all of it, and not only was it all live, but the take you’re watching is the one we recorded multi-track on stage. There are no alternate takes, no tricks.

Tár

Tell us about post. Was it remote because of COVID? Where did you do it?
I really love the whole post process, although it can be very stressful as you start to go through all the footage and wonder if it’s any good at all. We began editing and all the post at the start of 2022 and were supposed to do it in Vienna, but both Vienna and London had COVID lockdowns. So we came up with another plan, which was to move to this 15th century nunnery outside Edinburgh, Scotland, and we were just surrounded by sheep and nature and no distractions. It was amazing, as we had nothing to do except edit seven days a week, and it worked out great.

Editor Monika Willi, known for her many years of collaboration with Michael Haneke (The Piano Teacher, Time of the Wolf, The White Ribbon, Amour) cut this. How did you work together, and what were the main editing challenges?
I hadn’t worked with her before. She’s so disciplined and rigorous, which is exactly what this film required. In one way it was difficult since we were both away from our families for many months, but it also meant we could just concentrate on the editing without any interruptions and find the rhythms and pacing and performances that are always the big challenge of any edit.

We had our whole editing team with us – assistants, the VFX editor and so on – and it was so quiet and peaceful that we were able to do a lot of sound and Foley work there. We even had actors come up and do ADR in makeshift booths we built, and then we could send all that stuff back to Stephen Griffiths, our sound designer in London. That was the first part of post, so by the time we finished up there and headed down to Abbey Road to do our first temp mix, we were in very good shape.

It got very interesting once we were in Abbey Road and working with colorist Tim Masick at Company 3 and VFX supervisor Jake Nelson on the visual effects shots because we didn’t have much time. Once we locked picture in May, it was a real sprint to finish all the post in time for the Venice Film Festival. We did the final mix at Abbey Road with Deb Adair.

There are quite a few VFX. Who did them and what was entailed?
We had 300 VFX shots and several companies involved, including Residence Pictures, Framestore, Alchemy 24 and Syndicate, and I was very involved in all of it. I really enjoy working with VFX and how they can add so much in post. The first visual effects we needed were for the whole New York sequence, so I went to New York, and we did all the car stuff in the Battery Tunnel. We also shot on Staten Island.

It was a very surgical shoot since we had so little time to get what we needed. Then, in Berlin, most of the VFX work was cleanup and painting stuff out — a lot of removing unnecessary things in the frame. Almost all of the VFX — with the exception of the interior car set and gags, which we shot on a giant, brand-new LED stage in Berlin — were done with VFX supervisor Jake Nelson and his crew at Residence. Framestore was involved in stitching all the plates we shot in New York for the LED stage work, Alchemy 24 did some cleanup, and Syndicate did some compositing work.

Tár

Tell us about working with Company 3 colorist Tim Masick.
I love working with Tim. DP Darius Khondji (AFC, ASC) introduced us about 15 years ago, and I’ve worked exclusively with Tim ever since. He has the most delicate touch and exquisite sense of color in terms of what I respond to. The great thing about that history is that we were able to start working on the color very early on.

Even while Monika and I were editing in Scotland, I was doing remote sessions with Tim, and he worked on the grade off and on for months. By the time we did the final grade in August, he’d been working on it for half a year.

Did it turn out the way you first envisioned it?
When you’re writing and planning it, you have all these big dreams about what you think your film should be and look like, but it turned out even better thanks to a great team of collaborators.

Is it true you wrote it for Cate, and you wouldn’t have made it without her?
Yes. It’s the first time I’ve ever written something for anyone. Usually when I adapt material by other people, I just try to focus on the characters. I don’t want to think about specific actors. But on this, I’d been thinking about the character for a very long time, and Cate sort of appeared on my desk and just wouldn’t leave.

By the time I finished the script I couldn’t imagine anyone else in the role. Luckily, she said yes. Then she worked so hard on researching and preparing – everything from learning German to playing the piano. That’s Cate actually playing the piano, not some double. And she did all that while making two other films before we began shooting.

Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

Behind the Title: 1stAveMachine Director David Ebert

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David Ebert is a director at 1stAveMachine, which is what he calls, “a collection of pleasant individuals with great personalities that, when brought together, can somehow magically produce beautiful films and experiences of massive proportions.”

A writer, director, creative director and actor, Ebert has been working both in front of and behind the camera for over a decade. He has appeared in ads for Geico, Checkers and New York Lotto. He has also co-written the Emmy-nominated Netflix series It’s Bruno!; created, wrote, produced and starred in the TruTV series Ghost Story Club; and directed campaigns that include Google’s Pixel fall launch, YouTube’s Brandcast 2021 starring Hasan Minhaj, and the recent Dunkin’/NFL cross-promotion.

David Ebert

Kraft

Most recently, Ebert directed and starred in 1stAveMachine’s “Real Mayo” campaign for Kraft, using his (non-accredited) astrology knowledge to deliver personalized readings via TikTok and Twitter.

Let’s find out more from Ebert…

A director has a full plate of responsibilities, but what would surprise people the most about what a director does?
Way more writing and homework than I’d anticipated.

What was it about directing that attracted you?
I was an actor and had too many strong opinions on-set. Actors are largely powerless on-set — treated like temperamental equipment that needs bathroom breaks — and that feeling of not having more agency in the outcome of my work frustrated me. Directing makes me feel free on-set and affords me the opportunity to treat others the way I would like to be treated as an artist and a person.

Heinz

What continues to keep you interested?
Learning. I try to take jobs that force me to become an expert in a filmmaking technique or technology I would have never used otherwise. I was diagnosed with learning disabilities as a kid, so I spent a lot of time building a relationship with the concept of learning. In time, I grew to love and need the discomfort of being exposed to something new, then being really bad at it and then mastering it. Commercial filmmaking is the only job I’ve found that keeps the challenge fresh.

How do you pick the people you work with on a project?
For department heads, I love working with people much smarter and better than I am. For all other positions, I’ll give just about anybody a chance in any role, even if they are new to it, because others did the same for me, and it’s important to give people the opportunity to surprise you and themselves. If someone is capable in their role and can anticipate the needs of the production, I’ll hire them again. If that person is also kind to others and a good human, I will likely use them as often as I can.

How do you work with your DP? How do you describe the look you are after?
My DP (Jordan T. Parrott) checks all of my previous answers’ boxes. He is brilliant, anticipates my needs and is one of the kindest and most generous people I know. I understand thematically, informationally, emotionally why I need a shot to look a certain way, and he knows how to translate my descriptions into images. He respects me as much as I respect him, and the result is an egoless and frictionless exchange of ideas.

Do you get involved with post at all?
As involved as they’ll let me.

How did the pandemic affect your process and work?
If anything, the lack of commute and ability to control my creative space and time has improved how much I can handle. It’s also made me cherish time on-set. Every production is a small miracle.

Kraft

Can you name some recent projects?
In May, I starred in and directed a Kraft Mayo TikTok campaign for W+K. That was a lot of fun. The concept was a palm reader who reads people’s mayo spreads. I won the bid as the director and independently was sent a breakdown from my commercial agent to audition. I thought it would be funny to audition for my own spot. I got a call back before the agency figured out I was the same guy.

The lines between director, performer and writer are getting increasingly blurry as film production gets further democratized, and I think low-fi, entertainment-driven content that feels native to platforms is the direction we’re going in. Brands are taking a lot more risks in this space because the stakes are lower, and creatively I’ve been a great beneficiary of that.

This past month, I got to work on my second W+K project for a Heinz Halloween campaign. I brought in comedic talent I loved from TikTok and watched them blossom in their first television spot. I also had the eighth episode of my series Netflix by Bots come out this month. That’s another project where I’m given a massive amount of creative liberty and freedom, and the result is something that makes me laugh and generates earned press and organic views.

The past two months I’ve been working as an ECD on Google’s fall product launch. It’s my second consecutive year working the event, and it’s a fun challenge to switch modes from in-the-field director to planning and executing multiple films with multiple directors (done with my immensely talented creative partner Nolan Hicks). An event of that scale transcends making a “spot,” and the distinctions of client, agency and production become a single entity working tirelessly toward a single event. The bond you create with the teams you work with is deep, so when the final day comes, it’s less of a Friday and more like the last day of camp, saying goodbye to your new BFFs until the next fall.

David Ebert

Ghost Story Club

What project are you most proud of?
Ghost Story Club. It’s a television series I made for TruTV that I created, wrote, starred in and (though this title wasn’t conferred) show-ran. It’s the most creative liberty I’ve ever gotten on a project and the result is a series that, though hard to find, was enthusiastically enjoyed by viewers. I hope television execs let me make TV again. I think I was pretty good at it.

Was there a particular film or show that inspired you to get into filmmaking?
Hard to point to one. My mother was a single parent, so by necessity, TV was my babysitter. The plots and storylines of the shows I watched fused to my brain. I can casually recall episodes of Star Trek, The Nanny, Cheers, Family Guy, Xena: Warrior Princess, Dragon Ball Z — honestly, anything that came out between 1990 and 2005. I love all of it, and I knew early on I wanted to be a part of it in some way.

What’s your favorite part of the job?
Reading the comments. Historically, they’ve been very kind.

David Ebert

Ghost Story Club

What’s your least favorite?
Pulling image refs for decks.

If you didn’t have this job, what would you be doing instead?
Looking for a job.

How early did you choose this profession?
I still haven’t chosen it.

Name three pieces of technology you can’t do without?
My phone, the Adobe Creative Suite and my VR headset (I am shocked at how much I enjoy working out in that thing).

What do you do to de-stress from it all?
Get in the car with my family and go somewhere we haven’t been before. My wife and kids are the coolest people I know, and time with them when my phone isn’t buzzing is the closest I get to a perfect moment.

 

 

Bringing the documentary Long Live Benjamin to life

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By Dayna McCallum

The New York Times Op-Docs recently debuted Long Live Benjamin, a six-part episodic documentary directed by Jimm Lasser (Wieden & Kennedy) and Biff Butler (Rock Paper Scissors), and produced by Rock Paper Scissors Entertainment.

The film focuses on acclaimed portrait artist Allen Hirsch, who, while visiting his wife’s homeland of Venezuela, unexpectedly falls in love. The object of his affection — a deathly ill, orphaned newborn Capuchin monkey named Benjamin. After nursing Benjamin back to health and sneaking him into New York City, Hirsch finds his life, and his sense of self, forever changed by his adopted simian son.

We reached out to Lasser and Butler to learn more about this compelling project, the challenges they faced, and the unique story of how Long Live Benjamin came to life.

Long Live Benjamin

Benjamin sculpture, Long Live Benjamin

How did this project get started?
Lasser: I was living in Portland at the time. While in New York I went to visit Allen, who is my first cousin. I knew Benjamin when he was alive, and came by to pay my respects. When I entered Allen’s studio space, I saw his sculpture of Benjamin and the frozen corpse that was serving as his muse. Seeing this scene, I felt incredibly compelled to document what my cousin was going through. I had never made a film or thought of doing so, but I found myself renting a camera and staying the weekend to begin filming and asking Allen to share his story.

Butler: Jimm had shown up for a commercial edit bearing a bag of Mini DV tapes. We offered to transfer his material to a hard drive, and I guess the initial copy was never deleted from my own drive. Upon initial preview of the material, I have to say it all felt quirky and odd enough to be humorous; but when I took the liberty of watching the material at length, I witnessed an artist wrestling with his grief. I found this profound switch in takeaway so compelling that I wanted to see where a project like this might lead.

Can you describe your collaboration on the film?
Lasser: It began as a director/editor relationship, but it evolved. Because of my access to the Hirsch family, I shot the footage and lead the questioning with Allen. Biff began organizing and editing the footage. But as we began to develop the tone and feel of the storytelling, it became clear that he was as much a “director” of the story as I was.

Butler: In terms of advertising, Jimm is one of the smartest and discerning creatives I’ve had the pleasure of working with. I found myself having rather differing opinions to him, but I always learned something new and felt we came to stronger creative decisions because of such conflict. When the story of Allen and his monkey began unfolding in front of me, I was just as keen to foster this creative relationship as I was to build a movie.

Did the film change your working relationship?
Butler: As a commercial editor, it’s my job to carry a creative team’s hard work to the end of their laborious process — they conceive the idea, sell it through, get it made and trust me to glue the pieces together. I am of service to this, and it’s a privilege. When the footage I’d found on my hard drive started to take shape, and Jimm’s cousin began unloading his archive of paintings, photographs and home video on to us, it became a more involved endeavor. Years passed, as we’d get busy and leave things to gather dust for months here and there, and after a while it felt like this film was something that reflected both of our creative fingerprints.

Long Live Benjamin

Jimm Lasser, Long Live Benjamin

How did your professional experiences help or influence the project?
Lasser: Collaboration is central to the process of creating advertising. Being open to others is central to making great advertising. This process was a lot like film school. We both hadn’t ever done it, but we figured it out and found a way to work together.

Butler: Jimm and I enjoyed individual professional success during the years we spent on the project, and in hindsight I think this helped to reinforce the trust that was necessary in such a partnership.

What was the biggest technical challenge you faced?
Butler: The biggest challenge was just trying to get our schedules to line up. For a number of years we lived on opposite sides of the country, although there were three years where we both happened to live in New York at the same time. We found that the luxury of sitting was when the biggest creative strides happened. Most of the time, though, I would work on an edit, send to Jimm, and wait for him to give feedback. Then I’d be busy on something else when he’d send long detailed notes (and often new interviews to supplement the notes), and I would need to wait a while until I had the time to dig back in.

Technically speaking, the biggest issue might just be my use of Final Cut Pro 7. The film is made as a scrapbook from multiple sources, and quite simply Final Cut Pro doesn’t care much for this! Because we never really “set out” to “make a movie,” I had let the project grow somewhat unwieldy before realizing it needed to be organized as such.

Long Live Benjamin

Biff Butler, Long Live Benjamin

Can you detail your editorial workflow? What challenges did the varying media sources pose?
Butler: As I noted before, we didn’t set out to make a movie. I had about 10 tapes from Jimm and cut a short video just because I figured it’s not every day you get to edit someone’s monkey funeral. Cat videos this ain’t. Once Allen saw this, he would sporadically mail us photographs, newspaper clippings, VHS home videos, iPhone clips, anything and everything. Jimm and I were really just patching on to our initial short piece, until one day we realized we should start from scratch and make a movie.

As my preferred editing software is Final Cut Pro 7 (I’m old school, I guess), we stuck with it and just had to make sure the media was managed in a way that had all sources compressed to a common setting. It wasn’t really an issue, but needed some unraveling once we went to online conform. Due to our schedules, the process occurred in spurts. We’d make strides for a couple weeks, then leave it be for a month or so at a time. There was never a time where the project wasn’t in my backpack, however, and it proved to be my companion for over five years. If there was a day off, I would keep my blades sharp by cracking open the monkey movie and chipping away.

You shot the project as a continuous feature, and it is being shown now in episodic form. How does it feel to watch it as an episodic series?
Lasser: It works both ways, which I am very proud of. The longer form piece really lets you sink into Allen’s world. By the end of it, you feel Allen’s POV more deeply. I think not interrupting Alison Ables’ music allows the narrative to have a greater emotional connective tissue. I would bet there are more tears at the end of the longer format.

The episode form sharpened the narrative and made Allen’s story more digestible. I think that form makes it more open to a greater audience. Coming from advertising, I am used to respecting people’s attention spans, and telling stories in accessible forms.

How would you compare the documentary process to your commercial work? What surprised you?
Lasser: The executions of both are “storytelling,” but advertising has another layer of “marketing problem solving” that effects creative decisions. I was surprised how much Allen became a “client” in the process, since he was opening himself up so much. I had to keep his trust and assure him I was giving his story the dignity it deserved. It would have been easy to make his story into a joke.

Artist Allen Hirsch

Butler: It was my intention to never meet Allen until the movie was done, because I cherished that distance I had from him. In comparison to making a commercial, the key word here would be “truth.” The film is not selling anything. It’s not an advertisement for Allen, or monkeys, or art or New York. We certainly allowed our style to be influenced by Allen’s way of speaking, to sink deep into his mindset and point of view. Admittedly, I am very often bored by documentary features; there tends to be a good 20 minutes that is only there so it can be called “feature length” but totally disregards the attention span of the audience. On the flip side, there is an enjoyable challenge in commercial making where you are tasked to take the audience on a journey in only 60 seconds, and sometimes 30 or 15. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed being in control of what our audience felt and how they felt it.

What do you hope people will take away from the film?
Lasser: To me this is a portrait of an artist. His relationship with Benjamin is really an ingredient to his own artistic process. Too often we focus on the end product of an artist, but I was fascinated in the headspace that leads a creative person to create.

Butler: What I found most relatable in Allen’s journey was how much life seemed to happen “to” him. He did not set out to be the eccentric man with a monkey on his shoulders; it was through a deep connection with an animal that he found comfort and purpose. I hope people sympathize with Allen in this way.

To watch Long Live Benjamin, click here.

Spillt

Behind the Title: Spillt’s CDs Brian Eloe and Ryan Summers

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This past July, Denver-based creative studio Spillt hired motion design veteran Ryan Summers and live-action specialist Brian Eloe as senior creative directors. Among Summers’ accomplishments are title sequences for Pacific Rim and Person of Interest as well as creative direction for Mercedes-Benz Stadium, Warner Bros, Starbucks, Pokemon and Google. Eloe has spent the past 10 years honing his craft as a live-action director. His previous posts include creative, directorial and editorial work for 2C Creative, Impossible and Starz.

We reached out to the senior creative director duo to find out how they work and how their path led them to Spillt.

Can you talk about what a creative director does?
Summers: Pitching potential clients, building and directing creative teams, researching and testing new tools and technologies, and crafting the overall Spillt story.

Eloe: My role is similar to Ryan’s, except my areas of emphasis are in live-action and editorial. I, too, ideate, write, pitch, research, direct creative teams and manage client relationships. But then I roll up my sleeves to write concepts/scripts, direct shoots and edit. I am also a part of charting and developing the overall course of Spillt the company. 

What would surprise people the most about what falls under your title?
Summers: The amount of time we spend researching things that excite or confound us — stoking the fires of creativity, whether it’s some radical new scientific discovery, a crazy (or scary!) new AI tool or just finding a new band we dig. It’s all part of the gig.

Eloe: I think the most surprising thing is that we touch just about every aspect of the business. We wear many hats. While the day-to-day stewardship of the creative process is our primary directive, we are often a part of business development, PR, producing, culture building, R&D for best practices and managing budgets.

Another surprising aspect is that it’s not just about our vision. A popular misconception about being a CD is that everyone is producing your idea. I’ve heard so many greener artists pine for being a CD so they can follow their vision. And while there is an element of accountability or final say that stops with the CD, the surprise is that great ideas come from anywhere, so creating a culture that fosters that exchange is far more important. In my opinion, it’s more like being a coach than an auteur or visionary.

Canada Goose – Ryan Summers

What’s your favorite part of the job?
Summers: The email or call (or Zoom) from a new client with a question. The entire world is possible at that moment, from what I need to learn and who I get to work with to what the creative challenge will end up being. It must be what it feels like right before you go on stage to play the first song of a concert.

Eloe: For me, the best part of the job is the ever-evolving challenge. We work with all types of brands, clients and products, so it’s rarely the exact same puzzle to solve. Yes, sometimes there is overlap or sameness in the solutions, but usually a project has some aspect of learning and discovery. I am also a big fan of collaborations with really talented artists and specialists. It is humbling and awe-inspiring to rub elbows with people who are passionate experts of particular disciplines.

I also adore live-action production: the preparation, the tightly choreographed schedule on the day, problem-solving in the moment, seeing the crew work as a team, and the finality and satisfaction of hearing, “That’s a wrap.” It’s like playing a team sport and that feeling of camaraderie at the end of a game well-played.

What’s your least favorite?
Summers: There’s a certain type of sameness within the motion design industry right now when it comes to the expectations from a lot of clients, which frankly, as artists, we’re responsible for. So much of the industry is driven right now by a sort of tools-first mentality that a lot of the creative decisions feel like they’re being made based on a very limited menu of trends: stroked and repeated type, Corporate Memphis character designs, lazy floating cameras moving through static CG models.

Odell Brewing: Brian Eloe

There’s so much more we’re capable of, but the crush of dwindling budgets and even more dwindling production schedules, combined with the ubiquity of really powerful tools, is leading us into a land of cliche-driven design and uninspiring animation that’s at times hard to escape.

Eloe: In a way, the business has an 80/20 rule. Eighty percent of the process consists of conversations, pitches and explorations that might lead nowhere. That can be frustrating at times. However, the 20% that is doing, shooting, creating and collaborating more than makes up for it.

Still, being honest, navigating that 80% can be draining at times, especially when people aren’t direct or honest about why those machinations aren’t fruitful or working. I would also agree with Ryan: The client’s expectations against dwindling budgets coupled with heavy mimicry (is that even a word?) can also be a little demoralizing. I would include that in the 80%.

What is your most productive time of the day?
Summers: I wish I could say I was the master of the rise-and-shine routine, but I’m a proud, remote-working pandemic papa of a 3-year-old, so I really don’t start grooving until all is quiet at the home front. Anywhere between 10pm and 2am (and when I’ve had my third cup of coffee) is when I feel like I’m fully operational.

Eloe: My most productive time is just after getting the kids out the door to school. My mind is fresh and churning. Call it the 8am–1pm. window. Although, admittedly, I often bite off more than I can chew during this window.

Then I tend to have another burst in the evening after 7pm. That is often when ideas start to formulate or copy runs take shape. I also write songs in a band, and often lyrics come either really early in the morning (like the wake-up dream) or in those waning moments of the day. My absolute “struggle bus” time is the 3-6pm window. With my circadian rhythm, I am distracted or scatter-brained or drowsy— or all three — during that time. What was I saying again?

You mention working from home. How else has the COVID shutdown affected the way you’ve been working? 
Summers: There’s a lot of heavy lifting being done in Slack, so your GIF game has got to be on point these days. But seriously, it’s a big part of what we think about day to day.

Mercedes-Benz Stadium Golden Spike: Ryan Summers

How do you recapture the creative culture that’s in our DNA when the happy accident of walking past someone slinging keys in After Effects isn’t there to inspire you?

When you can’t go for a coffee run or take a long lunch and just be around each other, it’s like trying to draw blindfolded some of the time. Camaraderie and collusion between creatives was always part of the promise, and it’s not necessarily the same with Huddles or Zooms or whatever fun turn of phrase you ascribe to crappy connections over phone lines.

That said, I don’t think we’ll ever go back to the old ways 100%

Eloe: I think Ryan again hit on the biggest COVID adjustment. To add a little to this, the most acute part of this for me is the loss of unscheduled collaboration… the turning around in your chair and asking for a quick perspective or walking by and seeing an animation or edit in progress. That level of spontaneous creative exchange is really difficult to capture in the remote environment, and it makes it harder to connect as a team.

But I absolutely love that this situation reinforced the idea that brick and mortar isn’t an absolute requirement for the creative process to work. It also opened even more doors for collaboration with artists way outside of our time zone. In that regard, I actually think there are just as many positives as negatives with the “new paradigm,” and I agree I don’t see it ever course-correcting back to how it was.

I would also say that, in the production world, it adds all kinds of wrinkles to manage that are both tedious and, at times, expensive. Considering the twists and turns of the pandemic, it makes every shoot a unique situation with COVID protocols. It changes depending on the market you are shooting in, the current CDC guidelines and general attitudes/demeanor of the crews. It can be really tricky to make the most prudent decision from shoot to shoot.

You mentioned earlier that you see these workflow changes remaining?
Summers: Absolutely. For all the difficulties, I wouldn’t trade the opportunity to be working with people all over the world for anything. I spent a couple years helping run an online school for motion design and animation, and pre-pandemic it was heartbreaking to see so many talented artists struggle to find good paying-work commensurate with what I saw my friends in the states making. With the flip to a global, remote workforce, there are so many more opportunities for collaboration and for someone to reach their artistic and financial aspirations.

Eloe: I agree. The pandemic forced innovations and changes that will not revert back. Mostly I see this as a positive. I would add that part of being successful in this industry is being open to that ever-evolving workflow anyway. Frankly, the most successful creatives and companies are ones that are perpetually looking at the process, learning new approaches and tweaking the workflow. So while outside forces might have facilitated a large-scale industry shift, that constantly changing paradigm is ultimately a critical part of what makes the industry tick.

If you didn’t have this job, what would you be doing instead?
Summers: I went to school to be a chemical engineer, but I’m convinced I would have walked away from that career somehow. I played an obscene amount of Halo before that was an actual job title, so… professional gamer?

Odell Brewing: Brian Eloe

Eloe: I started out in flight school to become an airline pilot. Ultimately, my interest in that lost steam, and there were market factors that made that career choice unrealistic. But in some ways, editing reminded me of the procedures and checklists pilots follow, so there was a loose tie to that early aspiration.

Jokingly, on days when the job isn’t fun, I think about applying to truck-driving school. Realistically, though, were I not in this industry, I’d probably work in construction or woodworking. My father was a general contractor, so I spent time on his job sites, and I have an interest in building, remodeling and finishing.

Or, if I really wanted to go big risk-reward, I’d pursue music, my true passion/hobby. Playing in a band full-time might really fill my cup. There’s that whole family and responsibility thing, though, so rock star dreams are gonna have to remain a fun hobby.

How early on did you know this would be your path?
Summers: I’m of that oh-so-lucky generation to be born the year of our lord and savior, Star Wars, so I think I was destined for something with storytelling and problem-solving, even if there was no real path or proof at the time that it was possible. I do know that the majority of my brain was spent cycling on video games, comics, cartoons and movies. There was also that rapid succession of Jurassic Park, Toy Story and The Nightmare Before Christmas that calibrated my brain in the direction of animation at just the right time.

Eloe: Honestly, I kind of stumbled into it versus knowing it was for me. I suppose there was always a creative inside of me but my earliest career aspiration was in flying, so I didn’t set out to do this at first.

In my post-college years, I was working at a record store kind of trying to figure out where I was going. I had a friend who was an administrative assistant for the GM at Starz at the time, and she helped me get my first job as a tape vault librarian. That friend would then go on to become an extraordinarily talented VFX artist working on Flame who would help me later too.

But from that first job in the tape vault, I was able to see the various pathways for a major entertainment brand, like post production, production, business and logistics. Ultimately, the post path appealed to me the most. It was the intoxicating mix of creativity, collaboration and communication potential that hooked me. Plus, I got to play with really cool tools, and if I am being honest, it unearthed that dormant creative I unwittingly buried to pursue flying.

From there, I was fortunate to meet people open to mentoring and helping me get started. They helped shape and foster that interest and helped develop those chops in an era when the tools weren’t readily being offered in college courses.

WB Hotel: Ryan Summers

Finally, through relationships, friends and, frankly, luck, I found opportunities to grow and explore new aspects of the overall industry. It led me from spending years in post to live-action directing and creative direction. It has been a crazy journey, and it continues to change and evolve.

Can you name some recent projects you have worked on? 

Summers: A life-changing experience for me was creative-directing the guest experience for the WB Hotel in Abu Dhabi. It took two-plus years of meticulous research, tons of storyboarding and concepting, and a lot of frequent flyer miles to infuse a brand-new building with the 100-plus years of history, innovation and creativity behind Warner Bros. Studios.

When it was all said and done, my team and I crafted over 90 minutes of feature-level animation across the entire site, concepted, named and designed multiple restaurants; and hand-selected every last picture and object that was placed into the hotel, down to The Shining-inspired carpet patterns leading you to your room.

WB Hotel: Ryan Summers

I think I wrote over 1,100 pages of pitch material for that project alone. It was an honor to partner with the team at WB to create its first full-on hospitality experience. It’s probably the single biggest project I’ve ever taken on to date and the one that I’m most proud of.

Alongside that massive project, there’s groundbreaking work going on for a shopping mall on the Las Vegas Strip that I designed and directed that I can’t wait to step foot into. It’s full of a cast of elemental creatures that inhabit all of the spaces around you and react to your presence. We leveraged a ton of new technology to create intimate and explosive interactions that should change what people think is possible for immersive attractions.

Eloe: My all-time favorite project has been both of the launch campaigns for Nashville on CMT. They aren’t that recent, but the scope of these projects and the variables involved really hit all of the things I love about the industry and demonstrate my abilities across the spectrum. From writing concepts to leading the production, working with high-end and challenging talent, capturing in-camera VFX and leading the post process… the project had it all. And it really moved the needle for the network as it was their all-time highest rated series launch. For me, it was the pinnacle of collaboration with artists, cinematographers, clients and talent — everything I love about creating in one big, delicious wrapper.

Nashville: Brian Eloe

Lately, the projects that really jazz me are the kind that have a greater purpose than ratings or sales. For example, our work with the Freshwater Trust helping them craft videos to fund their BasinScout initiative and drive legislative change has been really satisfying. While the techniques used on the videos haven’t necessarily been groundbreaking, the possible impact on the world is where I see the power of what we do. Basically, it’s been about raising awareness, funding and changing major systems that can dramatically shift the conservation efforts for watersheds.

Another project like this was for a tech company called Cleerly that is bringing a powerful AI tool to market that might be able to predict heart attacks with great accuracy and far enough in advance to actually prevent them. These kinds of projects could have a positive effect on the whole planet and humanity at large, so leveraging my skills to help with that feels extremely fulfilling.

Nashville: Brian Eloe

Name three pieces of technology you can’t live without.
Summers: Sketchbook, TourBox Neo and Twitter.

Eloe: My iPhone/iPad: Being old enough to remember life without these items, I can honestly say I have no idea how we functioned before.

Video streaming services: Netflix, Hulu, Amazon and Apple TV. I love the flexibility of these nonlinear platforms. They have changed my media-consuming life.

Spotify: I am a music junkie, and although this service is absolutely fleecing artists, it is impossible to ignore the power of the world’s largest jukebox in my pocket at all times. God forbid I don’t have the cell coverage to bounce around.

What social media channels do you follow?
Summers: The beating heart of my social media interactions is — and always will be — Twitter, but Discord has taken up a lot of my professional interests.

I’m also really interested in the next wave of less intrusive, human-centered social media — like BeReal and Polywork — that relies way less on algorithmic behavioral manipulation.

Most people don’t think of it as social media, but for working artists, the signal-to-noise ratio of LinkedIn is hard to beat right now.

Eloe: Instagram. I can browse imagery for hours and hours. Plus, the ability to curate the feed constantly means it’s an endless search.

TikTok, mostly because of my kids — keeping up with them and seeing the new communication methodology.

Facebook/Meta. I still frequent this platform even though it’s widely regarded as passé or for old people. I still have a lot of friends, family and colleagues on there.

LinkedIn. This has improved over the years and I still catch a lot of interesting tidbits here.

Do you listen to music while you work? Care to share your favorite music to work to?
Summers: Right now: Rina Sawayama, The Midnight, Jack White, Bleachers and Saba.

“Cracker Island” is the best Gorillaz have sounded in ages, and “Better Days” from Liam Gallagher was the summer-song banger for this old Oasis fan.

Eloe: As I’ve said, I love music.  Frankly, in my household, music is more likely to be on versus a TV. I listen when I can — like when I am not editing or on constant calls/Zooms. Looking at Ryan’s list, I’d say yes to all except Liam Gallagher… I truly loathe Oasis. But that’s why I love music; there are so many possibilities and it’s to each their own.

My go-to is the ‘80s when I am on deadline building decks. Something about music from this era gets my wheels turning and fingers flying. There’s a certain nostalgia, and if we’re being real, the influence from the decade of excess on current indie music is undeniable.

However, my musical tastes are wide, so I’ll listen to just about anything. I generally have curated playlists for various genres and moods, so it’s not about a particular artist as much anymore. I love a good mix.

That said, I am currently in an Americana/outlaw country phase, and if there were some artists on my heavy rotation, they would be Turnpike Troubadours, Old 97’s, Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, Merle Haggard (the Outlaw Big 3) and Tyler Childers.

What do you do to de-stress from it all?
Summers: Time with the kiddo and wife soaking up as many rays as possible and some really long road trips. I went to Denver for the first time and touched a dinosaur bone that was still stuck in the silt and mud – electric shocks, man. Nothing can beat laughing with your kid in the sun of the summer. And dinosaurs!

Eloe: My No. 1 stress reliever is music. More than listening, playing in a band is what really helps me. It was interesting… a girlfriend in the early days of my career (I was still in the tape vault) said, “In this industry, it’s not about your art. The sooner you learn clients always get what they want regardless of what you think, the better. And the best defense for combatting the stress and disappointment is to have a creative hobby where you can express yourself free of that input.”

So, while I loved music before getting into this, I really saw the value of the band after she told me that. I have generally been in some type of musical group since my junior year of high school.

I also play ice hockey. That physical outlet helps with the stress. Plus I play with my good friends, so it is a heavy social outlet for me as well. It is a peer group completely outside of the industry.

The last thing is my cabin in Creede. It’s family land, and I have been going there since I was about 3 years old. There is nothing like the sunset there, fishing on the creek or a morning cup of coffee looking at the mountains to reduce stress. And in the new remote-work world, I can occasionally office up there, so it’s the best of all worlds.

Finally, would you have done anything different along your path? Any tips for others who are just starting out?
Summers: I would do nothing different. I’m not one for nostalgia or what-could-have-beens.

As for advice? Forget anyone that doesn’t believe in the best for you. Listen to that gut no matter what. Get 50% upfront.

Eloe: This is a hard question to answer. I mean, sure you learn from things along the way, and maybe I would handle certain situations differently, but the scraped knees and mistakes are honestly where the growth comes from.

I believe I’ve been very fortunate along my path. I’ve made opportunities happen and opened doors when I was supposed to, so mostly I’d do it the same way. If I had to really identify changes, I would’ve networked more. I don’t think you can do this enough, and I am guilty of shyness/discomfort limiting my reaching out to people. But you can never have enough experts or collaborators, so maybe I would’ve done more of that in the beginning.

I also think that seeking more formal training in certain tools might have been helpful. I’ve always done well learning in the moment and figuring it out as I go, but you can always learn more through more formalized courses or training. So, maybe that?

As for advice, there are so many little nuggets, really. Here are a few:

If you work hard at a less desirable job, they’ll remember you more when the time comes to do the desirable one.

You are never finished paying your dues.

No one steals your talent when you share your expertise, tips and tricks. Ultimately, it is the artists without talent who guard things like it’s their last meal. Avoid the “prison eaters” at all costs.

Unless it’s in writing, it is not awarded or approved. And even then, never put final in your file name.

Finally — and this is a big one for me — be careful what you put in email. Pick up the phone or schedule a conversation because too much is lost in the race for convenience or said in frustration. And once it’s sent, you can’t take it back.

Main Image: (L-R) Ryan Summers and Brian Eloe