Framing Agnes, which premiered at this year’s Sundance, is a participatory documentary about the legacy of one trans woman. “Agnes” is the pioneering, pseudonymized, transgender woman who participated in Harold Garfinkel’s gender health research at UCLA in the 1960s.
Blending fiction and nonfiction, Framing Agnes director Chase Joynt aims to widen the window through which trans history is viewed — one that has remained too narrow to capture the multiplicity of experiences eclipsed by those of Agnes.
Brooke Sebold
The film, which features a lineup of trans stars and vintage reenactments, was shot by DP Aubree Bernier-Clarke using a Sony FS7 Series camera with Leica R lenses and edited by Brooke Stern Sebold and Cecilio Escobar on Adobe Premiere. Post was done at Picture Shop and Formosa.
We reached out to Escobar and Sebold to find out more about their process…
How early did you get involved on this film?
Brooke Stern Sebold: Framing Agnes is the feature expansion of our award-winning short, so I was signed onto this project before it was a project. In addition to editing, I served as co-producer and was involved in creative development through production and post.
Cecilio Escobar: I started in 2019, after I had edited a pitch video for Chase.
How did you work with Chase? What direction were you given for the edit?
Sebold: I’ve been collaborating with Chase for over 15 years, and Framing Agnes is our fourth film (and first feature) together. Our friendship predates our working relationship, and our working relationship is informed by our friendship. When Chase and I are deep in the edit, we are tuned into the same frequency, often struck by the same bolt of inspiration, and often relying on non-verbal communication and shared gut feelings. Our creative collaboration is built on trust and a mutual admiration for each other’s brains and perspectives. It’s a beautiful thing.
Cecilio Escobar
Escobar: At the beginning, Chase and I worked through drafts of different sections, and I’d send them over and then he’d have notes, or we’d meet up on Zoom. Later, we’d watch together (via Zoom) and stop and talk and adjust etc. Direction-wise, I was told to follow my gut. I was told what the film was about, and [the process of editing] was mostly intuitive.
Was there a particular scene or scenes that were most challenging? How did you overcome that challenge?
Sebold: The most challenging sequence to cut was the first 10 minutes. Framing Agnes is a hybrid doc, and because of the experimental shape of our explorations, we knew that we had to anchor the viewer, narratively and visually, within those first 10 minutes. We recut that sequence a million times over, and I was always amazed by how altering the first 10 minutes shifted the entire feeling of our film. Unlocking that first sequence unlocked our whole movie.
Escobar: I think for me it was Henry’s story. It took a while for that one to come to a conclusion that felt satisfying
Brooke, we know you served as co-producer as well as editor, but did you wear more hats as well?
Sebold: I was heavily involved in creative development. I was also on set, serving as Chase’s second set of eyes while he was on camera and keeping tabs on all story threads to make sure we had everything we needed in the edit room.
Behind the Scenes: Framing Agnes
Can you talk about working on this during the pandemic?
Sebold: Chase and I were roommates in our early 20s, years before we became creative collaborators, and that relationship impacts how we work together. Typically, we choose to edit in an all-immersive environment that we refer to as “Edit Camp,” where Chase flies to LA and we cohabitate together, making delicious meals, processing the world and our current lives, and living inside our film.
The pandemic deprived us of this version of creative collaboration, which we both value so deeply. Zoom and technology proved to be a frustrating challenge, but ultimately, we found moments of creative inspiration and joy together, even if only virtually.
Escobar: It was hard not having Chase here, but we made it work. Some things are just way easier in person.
You guys cut on Premiere. Is there a tool you use within that system that most people might not know about?
Sebold: This isn’t exactly a hidden tool, but I color-code everything for organization. This helps me to visually identify particular themes or sequences in the film. Also, as a queer filmmaker, I always appreciate a rainbow of a timeline.
Escobar: I got one of those editing shuttles, and I love it! I can’t believe I’ve been editing so long without one.
How did you manage your time?
Sebold: The pandemic (and perhaps turning 40) has made me acutely aware of sustainable work practices and maintaining my own work-life-art balance. I reserve mornings for my own writing practice, and I dive into editing in focused five-hour sessions afterward.
Escobar: I don’t [manage it]. I feel like I’m always working.
Did you guys have an assistant editor on this? Did they do more than technical work?
Sebold: We edited Framing Agnes over four years, and we went through a handful of AEs during that time. Competent and capable AEs often graduate into editing or move into consistent AE work on a show or with a company. Since our budget was low and our needs were sporadic, we did not have the luxury of one person committed to the project throughout, even though I wished for it regularly. I’m still in search of that person for future projects.
How do you manage producers’ expectations with reality/what can really be done?
Sebold: I am always upfront about my concerns around tight timeframes or limitations of the footage. In the instance of Framing Agnes, producer Sam Curley is my producer on a number of my own projects, so we have a strong, established communication style. We also communicate regularly – sometimes around my potential concerns, but more frequently around the ways in which we can support Chase.
Escobar: This didn’t really come up for me. I think I only had to say once that I couldn’t do something, and only because I only had a few days left before the film was going to the post house.
How do you manage expectations or try everything they ask of you?
Sebold: I communicate openly, and I accomplish what’s possible in the given timeframe and save the rest for another day because my first priority is to myself and my health. I’ve experienced burnout once before, during which time I fell out of love with editing and filmmaking. I love my art and myself too much to threaten that devotion with a failure to communicate my needs and set boundaries.
Escobar: I do like trying everything, because you never know! Even if it doesn’t work, it could lead to other ideas. Chase didn’t really have any far-out expectations.
How do you take criticism? Do you find yourself defensive or accepting of others’ ideas (good and bad)?
Sebold: This depends entirely on who is delivering the criticism. If I trust the person and the intention behind it, I am extremely open to it and will try different versions of fixes, even if I disagree with the note. Once I’ve seen it enacted, then I’ll make a choice as to whether it works for me, and I’ll share my POV with the director. If I receive a note from a producer or director that I don’t agree with, I’ll try it and explain why I disagree. Usually, we’ll work toward a solution that satisfies both of us.
If the note is coming from someone who I sense is trying to tell the story their own way instead of supporting the story we’re trying to tell, then I’ll sit with it for a while. But ultimately, I trust my gut and let it go if it doesn’t feel right for our story. And sometimes still, a bad note is pointing toward a different problem, and I’ll try to identify the note behind the note. Giving and receiving notes is an art unto itself, and in all instances, I don’t take it personally.
Escobar: I have learned not to take it personally. I like throwing as many ideas out there as I can, never knowing what’s gonna work or what will evolve from it. And usually the bad ideas don’t work, so once you show them that, you’re sorta proved right (laughs).
Finally, any tips for those just starting out?
Sebold: Cut as much as you possibly can, and cut for emotion.
Escobar: Yes! Edit everything you can. Don’t work for free. And don’t be a jerk. Your reputation is just as important as your skills.